Early crossover

[kahits]

Having been toiling for the past 28 months, to recruit the future of my son's troop, and finally have a good group of W2's committed to crossing over this fall, I have a question. They all have their AOL's or will by the end of their W1 year (don't ask me how). The quesion is how closely to follow the AOL and 10 1/2 age requirement, since some of these boys will qualify but others will have to wait until next spring? I will be losing most of my parents and older scouts, this year, and I strongly urged them to consider a Fall 08 crossover, if there was going to be any chance of a smooth transition. Obviously, some of these boys will be at least 10 y's.o., but won't meet the letter of what BSA requires. The CM spoke with our new DE, and he didn't say anything one way or another, but to do what you have to do. Since they are all registered with the pack, the DOB's are recorded. The last time we waited for boys who were ready months earlier (parents drug their feet on crossover), they never made it, and dropped out of CS's before we could set up the ceremony. I know I am only going to get one shot at this, with this group, and with my son working towards finishing his Eagle, next year (and going to PSR on a contingent), one way or another, I'm stepping down as SM at the end of 09. Is this going to be a problem for this group of boys and dads?

[scoutldr]

I think I read here once before, that with ScoutNet registration, the computer won't accept their troop registration if they don't meet the age requirement. Wonderful thing about computers...they don't fudge the rules.

[CalicoPenn]

This comes right from the horses mouth (so to speak) - National's own website:

 

Be a boy who is 11 years old, OR one who has completed the fifth grade OR earned the Arrow of Light Award and is at least 10 years old, but is not yet 18 years old. (emphasis on the Or's are mine).

 

In your situation, the key OR is "earned the Arrow of Light Award AND is at least 10 years old"

 

Note that it says "at least 10 years old". Not 10 1/2, not 10 and 4 months, not 10 and 2/3. It says clearly "10 years old".

 

So, if at any time you have a 10 year old that has earned the Arrow of Light, he is eligible to join a Boy Scout Troop immediately - with no waiting period. (If he is 9 and has earned the AOL, he will have to wait for his 10th birthday, or will have had to complete the 5th grade - rare, but could happen if he was skipped up a grade). At anytime after a boy's 10th birthday (it can even be on his birthday, or the day after), if he has already been awarded his AOL, he is eligible to join a Boy Scout Troop.

 

So if they are 10 and have earned the AOL, and you're worried about losing them if they have to wait, go ahead and bring them over - you don't even have to do a crossover ceremony (its a nice thing to do, but its not a requirement, and it looks as if you experienced the loss of eligible boys before just because the pack and troop couldn't get a crossover ceremony together - don't let the ceremony stand in the way).

 

If ScoutNet won't accept the registration of a 10-year old who has earned the AOL, you'll have to figure out a way to override Scoutnet - or just turn the registrations in by hand to the Council Service Center and let the figure it out.

 

If they have all reached the 10th birthday and have AOL this fall - bring em on over!

 

Calico

[frank10]

For any that are not 10 when the others cross over, invite them to hold their den meeting in your meeting hall same time as your troop meeting.

[kahits]

Thanks, very much.... all of them will be 10, by the time we have their ceremony. I had always heard 10 1/2 years old, but that seems to have been changed. I did talk with my DE and he said they can over ride the registration software, if they feel it is justified, and he was willing to do that to support the troop recruitment, but I don't think that will be necessary, now. Thanks, again.

[ScoutNut]

Please keep in mind your first concern, and that of their parents, should be the BOYS, not the Troop.

 

Personally, as a parent, I could give two hoots if it would be more convenient for you to get my son in your Troop early. I would want him to do what was best for HIM. Even if that meant staying in the Pack longer.

[LongHaul]

The first requirement for AOL is; Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months since completing the fourth grade (or for at least six months since becoming 10 years old), and earn the Webelos badge. So unless these boys all skipped a grade their AOL is bogus. As ScoutNut said this is about the BOYS not the adults. We loose them because we don't offer them a program that interests them. Focusing on rank advancement and age requirements and grade levels tends to leave INTERESTING in their wake. LongHaul

[Stosh]

Just because a boy earns his AOL doesn't mean he's done with Cub Scouts any more than a boy earning his Eagle is done with Boy Scouting. This kind of thinking really doesn't do much for the Scouting program.

 

I got all my Webelos I's their AOL at the end of their first year. That left the second year for any boy that wanted to work on extra pins and a whole lot of fun activities. We went camping, canoeing, swimming, pinewood, etc. just for fun, the pressure was off. The boys got to show up at all the Pack meetings with their AOL's on their shirt for others to see for a change.

 

At the end of the second summer the boys began talking about crossing over because all the good summer weather was done and they had pretty much seen it all and done it all and were antsy to get into Boy Scouts. It was at that point we all knew it was time to cross over.

 

Stosh

[eagle97_78]

If the Webelos Leader was following the Webelos requirement guide then the actual earliest these Webelos should be able to Crossover is by the end of November if the th Pack does not stay active during the summer, but if the Pack stays active throughout the summer and does a lot of activities then I do not see why these Webelos could not crossover by the September or October Pack meeting. The only thing to question is how did these Webelos get there Arrow of Light so quickly because it takes just about 1 1/2 years to get the Arrow of Light award now a days.

[Lisabob]

I don't think there's much to be gained by questioning the validity of these boys' AoL awards. They are being awarded and kahits isn't doing the awarding as he is the SM in the troop, not the DL or CM in the pack. The real question ought to be what happens with these boys. Are they really ready to cross? Is the troop fully prepared to take on a bunch of new 10 year olds? In my experience the difference between end of 4th and end of 5th grade is enormous in terms of maturity levels so I hope the troop knows what they are doing here and can handle new, young, scouts with grace. Otherwise they'll simply lose them sooner, instead of later.

 

(Besides which, it is feasible (though I suppose we could quibble over "advisable") to earn AoL by late in the 4th grade year. A boy needs to be active in his webelos den for 4 months to earn the Webelos rank and another 6 months after that to earn AoL. A den that is active in the summers might start "counting" activities toward Webelos as early as June 1st after 3rd grade. So they go to day camp, resident camp, do some other summer activities, and the 4 month point comes in the beginning of October. Now they remain active and the 6 month point (for AoL) comes in early April. This requires coordination and drive, but it is at least possible.)

[Stosh]

It is very easy to get AOL in one year if one is having weekly den meetings. It allows for each pin to be presented in it's entirety once if not twice. This of course doesn't count the outings where more skills are added to the pot. Having earned the AOL the first year, it opens up all sorts of opportunities for catch up on the pins and/or more sophisticated outings.

 

Stosh

[kahits]

Thanks, LB. To answer your question, my son and I came to this troop to keep it from folding. We have seen a large group of boys age out, some with their Eagle rank, and some without it, in the past 27 months. We have recruited boys with limited success and are currently rebuilding everything. 2, W2's have already joined the troop from that pack, in the past few months, which is making this crossover much easier for the W1's, or so I am being told. Our group of older boys is small, including my son. The new members will be going to Brownsea this summer, and my son will attend NYLT. The other two, older boys are sporadic in their troop attendance, and I don't think they will make it thru recharter, unless they get serious about their Eagle work. So, this is more an opportunity for 5th grade aged scouts, then for anybody else, at the moment. I wish there was more to offer these Webelos, but their parents are relieved that their boys are not going to have to run any gauntlets to get comfortable after they crossover. My son continues to pursue his ranks, possibly earning Life after summer camp, and enjoying dancing and drumming in the Lodge, with brotherhood coming next month. He has a spot for Philmont on the Council contingent, next summer, and has scheduled his Eagle project to put up a portable powwow arbor for his charter school, with hopefully a lot of scouts from the OA chapter and the troop, the week before he leaves for his trek. How he kept his focus on pursing the program when the unit seemed to be dissolving all around him, is amazing.

[ScoutNut]

Per Lisabob - "Besides which, it is feasible (though I suppose we could quibble over "advisable") to earn AoL by late in the 4th grade year."

 

This is feasible ONLY if the boys will turn 10.5 years while in 4th grade.

 

It does not matter how hard or fast he works on and earns Activity Pins, or how many BS Troop outings he goes on.

 

As quoted by LongHaul, the 1st BSA Requirement to earn AOL is -

 

"Be active in your Webelos den for at least six months SINCE COMPLETING THE FORTH GRADE (OR for at least six months SINCE BECOMING 10 YEARS OLD)" The emphasis is mine.

 

So - IF you are following the BSA advancement requirements for AOL - the EARLIEST a boy can earn it is - 1) on the day he turns 10.5 years old - OR - 2) the end of November in his FIFTH GRADE YEAR.

 

For those of you who registered 10 year old 4th graders as Boy Scouts, I wonder if your council had to do some creative bookkeeping in order for ScoutNet to accept the registration. Does anyone know how date sensitive ScoutNet is? Or, is it simply a check-box for AOL and nothing else is considered? Just curious to know if we are beating ourselves up over dates and ages when it does not really matter.

[Eagledad]

>>Just curious to know if we are beating ourselves up over dates and ages when it does not really matter.

[LongHaul]

>>The DE can fix unusual situations like these. <<

How can a DE "fix" the fact that a bunch of parents are more worried about easing their burden or a pack or troop are looking to make their task easier by depriving these boys or the program designed to "transition" them from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts?

 >>I got all my Webelos I's their AOL at the end of their first year.<<

Is worded exactly correct, the leader GOT the boys the award. What the leader didn't do was teach these boys how a Boy Scout Troop is run. Troops do not normally cover the 21 merit badges needed for Eagle on a weekly meeting cycle. "Come join OUR troop, attend meetings for 21 months and we will make you an Eagle!" If the AOL is not important then why try to "give it" to the boy early? If it is important why not do it properly so the boy knows he has earned it according to the requirements established by BSA National?

 LongHaul