How do you go Troop shopping?

[Joni4TA]

Just curious how you might go about shopping for a Troop. How many Troops did you visit? How many meetings do you think it will take (or took) for you to sit in before you get a good idea of how they run, or if they're truly boy-led, boy-run? How many campouts? Committee Meetings?

 

Did anyone here go Troop shopping? How was it and what did you learn from it?

[GNX Guy]

Well, your really not supposed to do the shopping as an adult. It should be the youth's choice with some guidance.

 

That guidance can come from your attending monthly roundtables, and district events. Meeting and KNOWING the leadership. The youth can visit troops during their meetings, camping trips and distric events. Are any of the leadership active in the district or council level. That could prove to be a good indicator sometimes. It takes 5 minutes at a troop meeting or other activity to detect if they are boy run or not.

 

 

My son knew a year in advance where he was going to cross over to and that just happened last month. If you don't know well in advance, I'm afraid you might be making a blind choice.

[allangr1024]

When my son was 11 I took him to 4 troops in our area. He did not want to join his older brothers troop. At 3 an adult came, took both of us aside, and talked about his troop. At a fourth, my son had to sit through the meeting with the boys and then play a game with them during the meeting. I let him pick, and he picked the fourth. He liked the troop meeting where the SPL did the up in front stuff, and the game, which involved running around in the church parking lot. He also liked the scoutmaster, who could really talk to him on an eleven year old level. That is where he spent 3 years.

 

Unfortunately that scoutmaster left, the demographic of the troop changed over 3 years, there where no more public school boys left, only guys from a more affluent catholic school, and our trips got a whole lot more expensive (which left us out of some activities that involved travel and equiptment). Now at 15, he is out of scouts but very active in church youth programs.

 

Let the boy decide. I can tell you, he does not want an adult scouter to lecture him on the benefits of the troop, he wants to do the activities with the scouts. The adult scouter needs to talk to the dad, the SPL or a PL needs to invite the prospective scout to join the meeting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cubmaster Randy]

My son looked at 4 different troops and visited their open houses. I was already familar with all of them and knew their leadership and reputations from my work at the district level. Any one of them, I would have supported him joining.

When I asked him which ones he wanted to take a second look at, he told me he did not like any of them. The troops mentioned about all have between 70 and 100 members each, and I had already been asked if I would start a new troop, I asked him if he wanted me to do that. He did, so we ended up forming our a new troop. We started with 6 last March. With the recent crossovers, we are now at 18

 

I agree with GNX. You'll know quickly if the troop is boy led.

Here are some questions for you to ask to get a feel for the troop. Ultimitly it should be your son's choice

 

1. How often has your Troop achieved Quality Unit status in the last 5 years?

2. How are new Scouts handled? Are they mixed in with existing patrols or put into a new patrol?

3. How many registered leaders are there? What is their attendance history at regular meetings and on outings?

4. What is the boy:leader ratio at meetings and on outings?

5. Do you have an active outdoor program? How many days/year are spent camping? Where? What are the plans for summer camp?

6. What is your philosophy on uniforms?

7. How are new Scouts going to learn what to do as Boy Scouts (camping skills, patrol activities, advancement, etc.)? Will they have an experienced adult leader working with them?

8. What is a typical Troop meeting like? Do you work on merit badges? Do you play a lot of games?

9. What is your philosophy regarding advancement (at what pace are the ranks earned)?

10. What kind of program do you have for the older Scouts? Are there any High Adventure activities?

11. What kind of fundraising do you have?

12. What are the financial obligations for each Scout?

a) at signup

b) per campout

c) summer camp

d) dues

e) other

13. Do you pay for or subsidize training for the boys (Junior Leader Training, Den Chief training, etc.)?

14. Does your Troop have a limitation on size?

15. Do you have written policies?

16. Is your Troop "boy-run" or "adult-run?"

17. Are Troop meetings and activities planned:

- by the boys?

- for a full year?

- at a patrol leaders meeting?

18. What kind of equipment do you have? Is it in good shape? Do you have enough if (quantity) Webelos were to join your Troop?

19. Are your Scouts able to balance Boy Scouts with other activities such as sports, band, church, etc.?

20. How active is your Troop at District and Council events?

21. How many current leaders are trained in:

- Youth Protection?

- Scoutmaster Fundamentals?

- Woodbadge?

22. What are the expectations/requirements of new adults/parents to this Troop - as assistant leaders, committee members, special event chairpersons, event workers, merit badge counselors?

23. Does the Troop pay for any/all adult leader registration and training?

24. How many leaders routinely attend Round Table?

25. How do you feel about a Scout (and parent) visiting a meeting unannounced?

 

[Beavah]

Yeh take your boy to a meeting and an outing and you see if he makes friends and has fun, eh?

 

You take a look at the older boys and get a sense of whether they're good examples.

 

You do a "gut check" to make sure you can stand the adults in the unit without making a nuisance of yourself as a parent.

 

And then you let your boy decide.

 

B

 

 

 

[Eagledad]

I think it is important to visit a typical troop meeting, not a meeting planned or intended for guest. I like to call the SM the night before. I like the Webelos to hang with the scouts and the adults to tour the program with the SM. I think three basic questions will give you plenty of information to ask the follow on questions.

What is your goal for my son in this Troop?

Why is that the goal?

How does your program get him there?

 

I think that choosing a troop is a team decision with the parents and son.When I was a Cub Master, I would interview Webelos leaving the pack asking them why they choose the troop they choose. Many times the answer was they had the best game at the end of the meeting. We need to ask the scouts a lot of questions to get them talking and thinking about many aspects of the program the experienced.

 

Barry

 

[Mike F]

Good recommendations.

 

I wish I had watched carefully and asked questions before my oldest son joined a big troop with all his Webelos buds. It didn't take too long to figure out the troop was in chaos and had an undercurrent of negative vibes. After about a year, my boy was done. Fortunately I was able to talk him into giving another big troop a try. It wasn't an ideal fit, but he hung in there all the way to graduation.

 

For #2 son, I knew #1's troop wasn't a good fit at all, so we kept looking - eventually finding a perfect fit in a different small-medium sized troop.

 

A few additional lessons learned along the way:

 

- Don't be in a hurry. If a troop looks interesting when you get the sales pitch, come back and quietly hang out on the edges during a few meetings. You need to get past the recruiting sales pitch. Observe the guys in their patrol corners, during games, etc. Listen to their interactions, how the older guys interact with younger, etc. Do the guys really like and respect each other? Do they have a sense of purpose? I guarantee you'll learn a lot. (I did this additional observing once or twice without my son.) Don't sweat crossover deadline. If you and son aren't ready to commit, most scoutmasters will accept your son in the ceremony with the understanding that the final decision is still pending.

 

- Size seems to matter. Let me explain.

-- Ask adult leaders how many registered scouts are in the troop. Then count the number in attendance at the meetings you visit. Ask (or visit) to determine campout attendance, too. High rates of participation are a good indication of a strong program and guys who want to be together. (If you find a troop with 80% participation, sign up immediately before they are full. If it's 50% at meetings and 30% on campouts, keep looking.)

-- Ask adult leaders how many Webelos they crossed over last year. (They'll know.) Then ask them how many the previous year. (Some will remember.) Then ask them how many of these past two year-groups have rechartered this year. (Not many will know off the top of their head, but somebody has the paperwork and can find out.) Unfortunately, based on records in my District, it's not uncommon for some troops to regularly lose over 50% of new guys within 2 years. They will always lose a few due to various reasons, but 50% is tragic. There's something wrong. (I know some will argue they couldn't control it because the boys decided to focus on sports, band, school, etc., but I believe if the program is strong, the guy's decisions will reflect it - they'll find a way to play on the team and join the campout after the game.) Wouldn't you want your son to join a troop where he has an 80-90% chance of still being there in two years? (Those troops are out there, too.)

-- Now - about how size matters. Based on historical data from troops in my District, there's a strong correlation between size and dropout rate. The bigger troops bring in more guys, but they don't hang on to them. This is an unpopular topic around here and flies in the face of assumption bigger must be better. The small-medium troops are a mixed bag (some good retention, some bad), but the really big troops (100+ members) all lose over 50% in two years. I don't have solid numbers, but observations indicate same is true for attendance at meetings and campouts.

I'm sure there are exceptions, so don't assume small=good and big=bad. Just ask the questions about attendance and retention. You'll be glad you did.

 

Pick your path (troop) with care, but if you find your son is on the wrong one, it only costs $1 to transfer.

 

mike

[jmwalston]

Not bad advice from Mike. Also, beware of Troops under 2 years of age. They may contain organization problems that are starting to come to light. My son crossed over into a new Troop with his Webelos buds, though I wanted him to consider several well established Troops. His new Troop is in essence an older boy Cub Scout Pack, with the leadership spoon-feeding the boys on requirements, despite several attempts to break out into boy-led leadership.