Novice_Cubmaster Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Lets look at this from a boy's point of view for a moment. If given complete freedom of choice, would a boy pick a troop based on his church membership and/or faith? Or would his choice most likely be based on where his friends are, or the appeal of the unit's program? NC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilLup Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Hello Novice Cubmaster, I don't completely agree with the logic I will outline here but --- Given a completely free choice, would a boy ever eat vegetables or would it be candy every meal? Given a completely free choice, would a boy go to school or would he play video games? For some families, the choice of youth activities particularly including Scouting is a continuation of the religious education and activity chosen by the parents. And for some religions, particularly the LDS, Scouting is their official youth organization for boys and the one that the church expects the youth and family will participate in. You can certainly disagree with this, but it is so and the BSA supports this kind of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RememberSchiff Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 What I have seen over many years is that boys want to be with their friends and if they cannot be with their friends then they either do not join scouting or do not stay in scouting beyond the first year. Someday, I hope Scouting will stand behind its own diversity position and make it a charter requirement so that any boy will be permitted to join any troop. And I hope it will be done for the right reasons and not as a reaction to declining membership. "In Support of Diversity We hope that our supporters will continue to value the Boy Scouts of America's respect for diversity and the positive impact Scouting has on young people's lives." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob White Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 This has nothing to do with the BSA's support of Diversity. This is about the Charter Organizations constitution right to free association. The Co contracts with the BSa to use the scouting program. That contaract does not give the BSA the authority to tell the CO who they have to accept into their own organization. As long as the youth meets the BSA requirememnts then the CO can choose whether or not to accept them into THEIR program. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evmori Posted March 17, 2008 Share Posted March 17, 2008 Someone get the needle & thread out to start sewing that tear in the universe cause I agree with Bob White's last post! WOW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice_Cubmaster Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Hi all, NeilLup makes a good point, "Given a completely free choice, would a boy ever eat vegetables or would it be candy every meal?" - yep, my money would be on the candy. But in Scouting, I think the analogy isn't vegetables vs. candy - it's more like broccoli vs. cauliflower. I'm going on the assumption that all units that embrace the goals of scouting and put on a good program - regardless of religious affiliation - are going to help boys grow into good young men. Faith & reverence should be part of scouting; we're not just a bunch of campers. That said, I think some adults (be they parents, scouters or CharterOrgs) are overly fixated on this one aspect of scouting. Hold onto your hats - I'm returning to the topic... A CO is well within its rights to limit unit membership to scouts of its faith (and it is definitely not discrimination). But is this really of any benefit to the scouts themselves? Or is it just important to some percentage of adults? Our kids are growing up in a secular world. I appreciate a mixed unit where my son can see scouters of many religions working together in an environment that hasn't had God & faith "sanitized" out of it. NC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 NC, I am curious about your comparison (broccoli vs cauliflower). Did you craft that comparison carefully, knowing that they are the same species? And did you therefore embed a botanical subtlety that I (maybe others) need you to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalicoPenn Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Wow, Packsaddle (and NC) - I'm impressed! Not many people know that Broccoli and Cauliflower, two completely different looking vegetables, are actually the same species! Even fewer know that Kale, Collard Greens, Cabbage, Brussels Sprouts and Kohlrabi, also all completely different looking vegetables, are also of the same species as Broccoli and Cauliflower. Every single one of them are of the Oleracea species of the Brassica genus - all of them share the scientific name Brassica oleracea. It's pretty obvious that NC is telling us that Scouts are Scouts no matter what they look like. Cub Scouts look completely different from Boy Scouts, but they're still the same species - Scouts. Great analogy! Calico Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novice_Cubmaster Posted March 18, 2008 Share Posted March 18, 2008 Packsaddle, You give me too much credit for both botanical knowledge & subtlety. OK - instead of broccoli and cauliflower, let's go with carrots and zucchini. Both tasty, and less likely than broccoli & cauliflower to produce gas. NC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 Hi Calico, a very long time ago (back when the family was still called the Cruiciferae) I earned one of my degrees in botany. I guess I owe this to the curse of a very long memory for scientific names (mostly for the cryptogams - you'll understand). But I still enjoy botanizing and grossing out the boys when I explain, for example (heh, heh), that the fruits they enjoy are reproductive organs, specifically ripened ovaries, and in some cases placenta tissue. Then I bite into a really juicy, ripe tomato and squirt placenta grossness all over the place. Cheap thrills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 One of the interesting conversations I remember coming from the back seat on the way back from a campout was about whether a tomato was a fruit or a vegetable. I had no idea that 12 year olds could be so passionate about botany. (I kept mum and eventually the seed argument won the day.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packsaddle Posted March 19, 2008 Share Posted March 19, 2008 According to the Reagan administration, the tomato derivative catsup (ketchup, whatever) was a vegetable and ketchup (catsup, whatever) met the school dietary requirement for vegetables. It's almost as if James Watt was in charge of the Department of Education and HEW, as well as Interior. I half expected jelly beans to qualify as well (beans, you know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epalmer84 Posted March 20, 2008 Share Posted March 20, 2008 http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040716.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketchup_as_a_vegetable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSScout Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Only on Scouter... The connection between accectance of our Religious Diversity and Batter Dipped French Fries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorum Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Ya never know around here ... and, by following Ed's links, I just learned a new word - turns out that ketchup is thixotropic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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