Religious Discrimination? Or just CO Choice?

[SSScout]

 

 

The Scene: Commissioner College Class on Diversity.

The Situation posited: A boy applies to join a Scout Troop because some of his school buddies are members and have invited him. The Troop is sponsored ("chartered") by religious organization "A", a fairly major faith in the community. Troop leadership tells the boy and his parents that they will not accept him because he, the Scout Applicant, is not of their faith. They think he would be better served to join the Troop sonsored by Religious Organization "B". Turns out Scout is of faith "C" , which is not represented in the local Scout Charter Orgs.

 

What do you do/recommend as the assigned Unit Commissioner for Troop "A", if anything? What, if anything, would you say to the boy and his family?

 

Mmmmm?

 

((NB: this was meant to be a spin off of "Religious Awards"==Cub scout ))(This message has been edited by SSScout)

[Bob White]

As the Unit Commissioner I would contact the Instituitonal Head (IH) of the charter organization (CO) and verify that this is his (or her) wish for the unit to support this policy, or if perhaps this was a misunderstanding or a policy that someone else established which the IH was unaware of.

 

If the IH did not support this policy, then I would ask if it could be corrected quickly in house so that the youth could return to join as soon as possible.

 

If the IH was aware of the policy, I would explain that he has the ability to do that, and ask if he (or she) sees any benefits to opening the membership to youth outside their faith.

 

If the IH wishes to maintain the policy, then I would contact the youth's parents and offer to help him find another scouting program available in the area where he might also know some of the members.

 

Is this religious discrimination? Yes, but keep in mind that the like the BSA the church is a private organization and has the right to determine its membership. While it may be discriminatory you must remember that it is not illegal discrimination.

 

BW(This message has been edited by Bob White)(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[NeilLup]

Bob White has it exactly and precisely correct. Any unit for which he/she is Unit Commissioner is very fortunate.

[evmori]

Bob is right on the money. If the unit is charted by a church they can require membership in their church as a pre-requisite to join the unit.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gunny2862]

Wrinkle in the scenario above, the CO does not (to date) require membership in their church and has boys of the same faith as the CO from other churches. All else applies.

What then?

[evmori]

Wrinkle in the scenario above, the CO does not (to date) require membership in their church and has boys of the same faith as the CO from other churches. All else applies.

What then?

 

Then it sounds like the CO has changed the membership requirement going forward which is their prerogative.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Gunny I believed I covered that. If the IH does not have the policy that the SM said they have then as the commissioner I would ask him to get that correction made with the SM as soon as possible so that the youth could return to join.

 

Lets remember that the Scoutmaster works for the CO and not the other way around. It is not the SM role to determine membership policies. That authority is given to the BSA and the IH of the charter organization.

[Gunny2862]

Bob, I realize that I look at a lot of things from the SM POV, because I are one.

 

But your post makes absolutely NO sense. I never said a single thing about the SM setting policy in this thread! Never said the SM didn't work for the CO!

AS a matter of fact until your post immediately before this one, including your own previous ones in this thread, no one has brought up the SM role in this equation!

 

I feel as though you are trying to be inflammatory! I'm trying to just find out things. I feel like you are enjoying using a rule book not as a guide or a resource but as a hammer.

 

I might want your knowledge, but I don't want your attitude as I grow in Scouting!

[Bob White]

Gunny

I think you misunderstood my answer, or I misunderstood your question or both, so allow me to rephrase it and if your question still isn't answered please ask again in more detail.

 

In the case mentioned by SSScout only two possible scenarios can exist.

The unit leader who told the youth he could not join due to a membership policy was (A) Correct, and the policy was made and supported by the IH. (B) Incorrect, and that policy was not made or supported by the IH.

 

The only way to tell is to talk to the IH and see if that is the charter organization's policy or not.

 

If (A) then the IH has the authority to have that policy. The BSA recognizes their right to select their own membership within the parameters of the BSa membership regualtions.

 

If (B) then the IH has a responsibility to correct their unit leaders knowledge of the the IH's membership policiy so that the youth can reapply.

 

 

SSScout referred to "troop leadership", I said Scoutmaster, because the scoutmaster is the Troop Leader that signs the application form and so is the most likely person to have shared this policy with the visiting youth.

 

While the "troop leadership" may have their own opinions of who should or should not be in the troop they have no authority to set those policies. They are volunteer workers in the Charter Organization's Troop. Mmembership is not determined by the Troop leaders. It is determined by the BSA and the IH.

 

Policies are recorded in books. Don't blame me for that, it wasn't my idea. Who can be a member and who can determine that, are matters of policy not opinion.

 

Did either scenario answer your question?

 

 

 

[emb021]

"Wrinkle in the scenario above, the CO does not (to date) require membership in their church and has boys of the same faith as the CO from other churches. All else applies.

What then?"

 

Then I would definetly get a clarification, as Bob White has clearly set this out.

 

Was there a chance in policy OR is the SM making a change in policy? I would ALSO wonder if the SM is claiming there is this policy due to the faith of this scout. I'd like to hope that is not a factor, but you will be surprised.

(on that note, I came across some items on-line of scout councils or units in southern states who turned away muslims from being scouts because the 'BSA is only open to Christians' or some such nonsense. These people were, understandably upset, and tho this was some national policy when it wasn't. It was the action of people at the local level).

 

 

[Gunny2862]

Bob, that answer makes a whole lot more sense!

 

And I agree with it, not that that is particularly important to the greater BSA. To me, My Troop, My District and Council, perhaps.

 

But with your clarified wording in mind as the SM as Troop Leadership in the above example might he be presupposed to know his CO's membership rules for the troop, is it then your idea that he shouldn't tell "the boy and his parents that they will not accept him because he, the Scout Applicant, is not of their faith.", and then offer some constructive suggestions about Troops he might be able to join. And isn't that what you'd want him to do?

 

My problem isn't that the answers are there in the books and that you know them - it's that to me it looks like you ignore the human in the equation and pedantically beat that human with the answer, instead of just showing them how it should be according to the book.

 

I do agree that if the issue comes to the UC that there is some kind of issue. And that clarification of the CO's policies by the IH would definitely be in order. It might also be that the Troop Leadership does know the CO's policies and that the Prospective Scouts parents need to be guided to a Troop that would be an appropriate fit.

[Bob White]

Books tell us the rules. They are not going to tell you how to share the rule or how to counsel people when they don't like the rule. That is not what rule books do.

 

Whether the unit leader explains it to the scout or not does not alter the role of the Unit Commissioner, nor was it a part of your "wrinkle".

 

If I were the unit leader I would explain it to the scouts in the unit so that this situation did not arise.

 

If the friends that invited the scout are all of one faith, and they are in a unit of scouts of all of one faith, and they meet at the church or that faith, and yet did not know that the troop was just for memmbers of that faith, then the unit has some real communication and identity problems that they should be fixing.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[ScoutNut]

Gunny, I am not sure what it is that you are trying to say exactly. From your comment -

 

"I do agree that if the issue comes to the UC that there is some kind of issue. And that clarification of the CO's policies by the IH would definitely be in order. It might also be that the Troop Leadership does know the CO's policies and that the Prospective Scouts parents need to be guided to a Troop that would be an appropriate fit."

 

It would seem that you completely agree with BW's answer to the scene proposed by SSScout.

 

Your "wrinkle" does not change the scene that SSScout proposed. The boy was refused acceptance into the Troop because his FAITH (not his CHURCH) was different from that of the CO. Having members of the Troop who belong to different churches, but are all of the same faith, is no wrinkle at all.

[Gunny2862]

It doesn't have to be specifically in my wrinkle it was by your definitions part of the original question posited. Which my wrinkle retained all other parts of.

 

Have no boys ever thought someone would be a great friend to have in Scouting and invited him, assuming he was of the same faith and also assuming that membership wasn't going to be a problem? (Not spelled out but not excluded from the original question.(Also probably the most likely way this problem arises).

 

For further clarification I was positing membership in that CO, not just in that faith group.

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

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We hope that our supporters will continue to value the Boy Scouts of America's respect for diversity and the positive impact Scouting has on young people's lives."

 

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