NYLT Curriculum-NSP, Experienced Patrol, Venture Patrol

[OldGreyEagle]

I would figure in as august group as this is, we must have a few NYLT Scoutmasters and NYLT staff youth as members. My question to them is this: How does the NYLT Curriculum address the concept of New Scout Patrols, Experienced Patrols, and Venture Patrols and their role in the Troop?

[dan]

I am an gray haired SM for NYLT. :0

 

Patrols are formed and are giving a troop guide, so when they start out they are treated as new scout patrols, high enthusiasm and low skills.

By the end of the week they are treated as Experienced patrols, high enthusiasm and high skills, if they are a good patrol, if not the troop guide continue to guide them using more guiding than enabling.

Venture Patrols are not even discussed during the course that I remember.

 

 

[Vicki]

I can confirm what Dan said - and no, Venturing is not even mentioned.

 

Vicki (NYLT staff)

[OldGreyEagle]

I can understand that Venturing, a compeltely different program in the BSA would not be mentioned in NYLT, I wouldnt expect Explorer Posts to be mentioned either. But I wondered if Venture patrols were mentioned.

 

There has been talk on the forum that a Boy Scout Troop should have a three tier program, New Scout Patrol, Experienced Scout Patrol and Venture Scout Patrol and there seemed to be reluctance that this was the case. I was wondering what the National Syllabus teaches youth about how their Troop should be set up

[emb021]

"Venturing is not even mentioned."

 

Venture Patrols have nothing to do with Venturing.

 

Venture Patrols are optional patrols for older Boy Scouts 13 and up.

 

 

[Beavah]

There has been talk on the forum that a Boy Scout Troop should have a three tier program, New Scout Patrol, Experienced Scout Patrol and Venture Scout Patrol and there seemed to be reluctance that this was the case.

 

Yah, as has been discussed before, more recent BSA materials have been steadily de-emphasizing Venture Patrols.

 

NYLT is as described. It runs parallel to WB21C. Boys are formed into patrols and there's some notion of progression from new to experienced, eh? Not as "tiers" but as a progression of development through the training.

 

I'd be curious where a "three-tier program" is ever mentioned in those terms in any BSA literature. I don't believe it is. All I can recall bein' mentioned (in older publications like da SM Handbook) is the possibility of those three types of patrols, eh?

 

In my experience, that kind of tiered setup can be used by Very Large Troops with some success. Tier one has a "SM"-like ASM and several assistants, an ASPL, and TGs all serving a few NSP's. Tier 2 has 7th and 8th graders, similarly with a SM-like "ASM", several assistants, and an ASPL. Tier 3 has high schoolers as several Venture Patrols with a SM-like ASM and several assistants and an ASPL for Venture. SM and SPL oversee the whole thing. As yeh can guess, each tier runs a semi-autonomous program and acts like a troop unto itself.

 

Such programs have a lot of boys and a lot goin' on, eh? They can be very successful in that way. There's some downsides, too. It takes a SM who really likes that kind of organizational management role, and such big units often come unglued when that person leaves. It's also quite a bit more adult-directed than other setups, IMO. Finally the 7th/8th grade tier often is a kind o' poor country cousin, and there's more attrition in those years. I think these troops can only be built in moderately affluent, suburban communities.

 

LDS units of course run a tiered program as well, with 11-year-old new boys groups, 12-13 year old Scouts, 14-15 year old Varsity and 16-17 year old Venturing setups. These are much smaller than the large troop tiers above, and IMO less successful because high turnover affects quality.

 

Tiered troops make up a relatively small fraction of Scouting. Most troops are relatively small, where such a setup wouldn't make much sense.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

more recent BSA materials have been steadily de-emphasizing Venture Patrols.

 

I was not aware of that. Which specific materials would that be?

 

[Venividi]

I havent seen the program guide lately, since I now work with cub units, but I think I recall seeing 3 levels of program activities described in there (though I recognize that my memory may be faulty).

 

[emb021]

""more recent BSA materials have been steadily de-emphasizing Venture Patrols."

 

"I was not aware of that. Which specific materials would that be?"

 

Its gotten harder and harder to find information on Venture Patrols in current BSA literature. There used to be more in places like the SMHB and JLHB. Now there is very little, to the point that many leaders are ignorate of the program at all.

 

Furthermore, about a year or two ago, they took away the Venture/Varsity Letter and pins from the Venture Patrol. If you check the current Insignia Guide its clear the letter and pins are ONLY for the Varsity Scout Team. I think I sent a letter to Scouter to clarify this, and they agreed: the letter and pins are for the Team only.

 

I have heard rumors of National killing off the Venture Patrol for YEARS (I know the Venturing program would like to see this happen because of the confusion it causes). I've had some scouters claim they seen a letter from National saying the program has been dropped, tho I have yet to see it or see ANYTHING from National on the website, etc as to the current status of Venture Patrols.

 

 

 

[FScouter]

Looking at the current books and the prior books, Id have to conclude that venture patrol discussion is much more prominent that before. The current Handbook has 3 pages devoted solely to the venture patrol: 19, 420-421. The Patrol Leader Handbook has 2 pages discussing the 3 types of patrols: 41-42. Conversely, the prior edition of the Handbook makes no mention of the venture patrol at all.

 

Similarly, the current Scoutmaster Handbook discusses the 3 different kinds of patrol, whereas the prior SM handbook has no mention of venture patrols (but does talk about the coed crew).

[OldGreyEagle]

I apologize if my use of the phrase "three tier program" sent anyone into a tizzy. I should know only to never veer from the words and phrases used in BSA publications and try to add in my own personality.

[FScouter]

Yeah, watch it next time will ya? There's no point discussing anything that is merely a "possibility". Gee now that I think about it, every aspect of Scouting can be demoted to "possiblility" if we don't wanna do it.

[dan]

Gee the august group was more to my disliking than the 3 tier program.

 

Where have you been Beavah? I was wondering if you left the forum.