Does BSA trust us to deliver the Program?

[Its Me]

 

Based on my "Why do we cross when we cross thread" it could be presumed that left on our own we (unit leaders) disappoint the BSA in getting scouts to first class in a timely manner. Thus cross the scouts in-mass and send them off to our council camps as soon as you can. "You all can tidy up the loose ends in the FCFY requirements. Can't ya?" says Texas.

 

Process them by age, they should be well institutionalized by fifth grade and get them in the pipe line. Get'em get'em out.

 

Am I being to harsh on the national folks?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scottteng]

Yeah a little bit the reason behind the push to get boys to first class rank is they tend not to quit once they have achieved it. A lot of us are guilty of requiring First class rank for certain trips or perks as is the BSA. OA membership being the primary example. Leaders have usually attained a comfort level with scouts that have been around long enough to get to first class know what their strengths and weaknesses are and also how they will react in most situations. FCFY is a challenging but realistic goal but it does require almost %100 participation from a scout. Your less committed scouts will not get there and unfortunately many will find that scouting just does not fit into their sports, school, band, family or other schedule. However rank advancement is just one part of scouting and if a young man is happy just going to some meetings and attending only outings that are of particular interest I am not going to throw him out. Like most other things one gets out of scouting in direct proportion to what one puts in.

[Bob White]

I don't think you are being harsh on national at all. But I do think you take an unfortunate view of scouting for a volunteer leader.

 

Your "presumptions" are based on your your misunderstanding of the program and its Methods. a problem that is easily remedied through increased knowledge of Scouting and a less cynical attitude toward its Methods.

 

The New Scouts you get should not be unfamiliar with camping if their Pack followed the program and made use of the camping activities available to Cub Scouts. Having them ready for a week of Summer camp in 4 months is not a difficult task. THOUSANDS of troops every year have managed to do it for decades. Why do ou find it a problem?

 

You are the one who wants to make the Summer camp responsible for skill training from Tenderfoot to First Class. Nothing I have learned about program planning in the BSA suggests that, where did you get that idea?

 

Many troops find great advantage in Webelos coming in in a ready made patriol. it makes the implementation opf the New Scout Patrol that much easier. Bit that is only if you follow the BSa troop operations plan...do you?

 

Not "get them in the pipleline and get them out". It's about getting them the basic skills to get them into more adventure so that you can keep them in L o n g e r.

 

The problem isn't that National doesn't trust you... it's that you do not trust the Scouting program. This program has been evolved and developed over the last 100 years by thousands of scouters with far more experience and success at scouting than you give them credit for.

 

The information and Methods on how to deliver a quality program is made available to you through the resources of the BSA, and you don't seem to be very interested in learning or using them.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori]

A little harsh, maybe.

 

The need to get boys from joining a BSA Troop to 1st Class in 12-14 months does seem to be something National thinks is important. What I feel is more important is to make sure the Scouts learn the basic skills at their own pace. Not all kids learn at the same rate & to infer they do is inaccurate. If it's 12-14 months great! If not, it's no big deal.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Joni4TA]

My son was really active in Scouting (summer camps included), but I feel he took his time to get to 1st class. It took him 15 months. It took him another 3 years to get to Star, and there he sits now for the last 7 or so months. As I said, he's taking his time at Scouting.

 

He says he doesn't care too much about the requirements, merit badges and ranks. He just really likes learning about the outdoors and enjoying the outdoor program. He likes when he gets elected to SPL because he feels like he has something to offer the Troop. He tries to make sure that our new Boys work on their rank up to First Class. But we aren't an Eagle Mill.

 

His father, the SM and ASM try to push him a little when we feel like he's ready to work on an Eagle required MB or two. Other than that, we let him enjoy his time as a Scout. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

I guess a March crossover does seem early. But my son crossed over into Boy Scouts at the end of January. Try THAT for early! And still, he takes his time.(This message has been edited by Joni4TA)

[Stosh]

It might just be how others seem to want to view different situations, but I see a strong push for FC the first year as a positive thing. BSA has defined FC as the minimum requirements for self-sufficiency in the outdoors. Why would we not as part of orientation into the program and scouting in general, push that process so that the boys get their feet on the ground and moving as quickly as possible. How frustrating it must be to go out and try to play baseball having only learned half the rules.

 

Too often I see this process in scouting. The boys go out on their campout without any proper preparation and then end up feeling awkward when they look around at the other boys and see them knowing what's really going on.

 

On occasion military terminology and examples are tossed around in the scouting world and wouldn't it apply that the T2FC process is in fact the basic training of scouting? Before the boy goes on to specialized training/activities they have to get through the basics. I see nothing wrong with processing this procedure with expediency.

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

Perhaps the topic should be rearranged to read "Why Scould the BSA trust us to deliver the Program". At a recent University of Scouting course I did on Boards of Review, I was faced with the question, in the first minute of the session with the question:

 

Should a Board of Review take 4 hours

 

it went downhill from there

[Eamonn]

"Should a Board of Review take 4 hours"

Wow!!

Bad as I am!! Even I don't spent that long in the confessional!

 

I suppose the "Book Answer" to "Does BSA trust us to deliver the Program?"

Is that it's really not up to the BSA!!

Unit leaders are selected by the Chartering Organization.

However as many CO's don't have the time or are unwilling to make the time? It becomes something for the individual and the Troop Committee to look at.

I'm fairly happy with working with Scouts of all ages.

I like to think that I'm not in any way dependent on Scout Summer Camp, the District, the Council or any outside group to help me guide Scouts through the requirements needed to become a First Class Scout.

I do try very hard to ensure that the training they receive does everything possible to not only teach them the skills but also lots of opportunities to use the skills.

I think that I'm very fortunate in having a good memory and can look back and remember what it was like to be a young Lad, this allows me to look for fun and challenging ways to present the training's and provide fun activities for the Scouts.

I have never asked permission to do this? Or felt the need to ask!So as far as I'm aware trust has never been an issue.

Each Scout will advance at his own rate of knots. Some will start off with a sprint and then maybe slow down, others will pace themselves.

Scouts and Scouting for some Boy's will be the most important activity they do while for others it will just be something else that they do. That is their choice.

I see my role as helping to provide a program that meets the needs of the individual.

If we stop thinking of having a group of Lads all advance at the same time, at the same rate and look at each Scout as an individual and do what we can to work for and with him.

Things seem to work out better for everyone.

After all we do serve the Scouts in the Troop.

Each and every Scout is different and trying to herd them through advancement is like trying to teach a pig to sing.

Eamonn.

[MarkS]

evmori said, "Not all kids learn at the same rate & to infer they do is inaccurate. If it's 12-14 months great! If not, it's no big deal."

 

This is true. Not all kids learn at the same rate but if you really think about the requirements that need to be completed in order for a boy to reach First Class, if he can't do it in 12-14 months, it's more of a reflection on the program the troop is offering, not the boy.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Stosh]

MarkS, I don't think one can put the blame on the program or presentation of the program just because kids learn at differing speeds. What about an excellent program where the boy takes the season of football off from scouting? Or elects to be on the swim team sometime during that year. Taking off large chuncks of time will in fact have the scout not be successful in accomplishing FC in the first year and it has nothing to do with the speed of the scouts learning, nor the quality of the program being offered. There are many "what-if's" that play out during the course of the year that the boy, the troop, the family, don't always know about that play themselves out. For this reason, one has a PL and APL who keeps tabs on these lapses and makes arrangements for the patrol members to keep up with the program as best they can, and do follow up when things go awry. Problem-solving on the PL's part plays a big part in his leadership development.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

evmori said, "Not all kids learn at the same rate & to infer they do is inaccurate. If it's 12-14 months great! If not, it's no big deal."

 

This is true. Not all kids learn at the same rate but if you really think about the requirements that need to be completed in order for a boy to reach First Class, if he can't do it in 12-14 months, it's more of a reflection on the program the troop is offering, not the boy.

 

If the Troop is offering the Scouts everything they need to advance, it is up to the Scouts to take advantage of what is offered. Remember, it is their advancement, not ours.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

Clearly, if advancement is not happening, outside influences and the boy himself are the prime factors. The SM has little influence and no control. He plays a minor role.

[Eamonn]

While of course it is up to the Scout and his family to decide how active and how involved he is going to be and this will impact in some ways if he advances or not.

There are however some really bad Troops out there that seem to think brining a group of Boys together once a week to play basketball is Scouting.

Eamonn.

[FScouter]

So if the boys want to play basketball for the pre-opening gathering activity and carry it through for the entire meeting, what's wrong with that?? It's not the Scoutmaster's program.

 

Remember, it's not our program, "it's for the boys".

[ccjj]

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"So if the boys want to play basketball for the pre-opening gathering activity and carry it through for the entire meeting, what's wrong with that?? It's not the Scoutmaster's program. "

 

But, if they do that for every meeting that is not right. My sons former troop did just that. The SM said this is a boy led troop and if that is what they want to do, then they can do it.

 

If the opportunity to restart a former unit did not come when it did, my son and another boy probably would have quit.

 

ccjj