Why do we cross over boys in March?

[acco40]

Why do we cross over boys in March?

 

Because the BSA doesn't allow us to crossover girls

 

Seriously, the summer camp preparedness issue comes to mind. Summer camp is really the place where many of the boys bond. If a Scout joined in September, I feel that he may not bond as early.

 

The pack I was affiliated with had Webelos cross over in February. Other Packs had March and April dates. I talked to the Pack that had an April date and their boys were really at a disadvantage. They would join our troop and the first outing some would go on would be in May or Summer camp. Meanwhile, all the other Scouts had more experience - even the other first year Scouts. They now cross over in late February.

 

Ideally, from a selfish Scoutmaster perspective, I'd like to see the boys from all Packs cross over in the same week. That way it would be easier to formulate a plan for the incoming Scouts as opposed to have them trickle in one by one over a two to three month period.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[msnowman]

Its not just the boys you have to get comfortable w/ the Troop before summer camp. Since most new boys aren't driving themselves or writing their own checks you have to get the parents comfortable with sending their darlings into the woods for a week w/ strangers. Crossing over in March gives all of the new people time to get comfortable.

 

No, parents aren't the only reason - but you still gotta give them time.

 

YiS

Michelle

[LongHaul]

Just so I'm clear on this BW, your interpretation of the Troop Program Features is that the plan is to have three separate outings at the end of the four week preparation? That the Troop Meeting plan is formated with three levels of intending that there will be three separate outings as the goal?

 LongHaul

[Bob White]

Not at all. The entire scouting program, including Boy Scouts, is designed with the understanding that scouts go though different stages of interest and abilities which which generally come at specific ages and stages of development.

 

If you look at the BSA's Troop operations plan you have three levels of patrols based on the ages and stages of development. If you look at the BSa troop meeting planner, you have three different skill levels of activities, each based on the different age adn stage of development for that level of patrol.

 

If you consider the length of membership for scouts 7.5 years, you see that by matching the activities to the skill level of the patrol types allows the scout to have a totally different scouting experience each year, rather than having to live his first year over and over again.

You should not want to send a Venture Patrol to camp in a local park and work on Tenderfoot to 1st Class skills any more than you should want to send a New Scout Patrol of 10.5 year olds to climb a mountain.

 

The level of program adventure should grow as the scout grows in physical ability and skill. By doing so you offer each level of Patrol the skills and activities that are appropriate and challengeing for each stage of age and ability.

 

If by age 11 or 12 scouts have as much ability as the 16 or 17 year old scouts to be able to do their same activities, then that is a sure sign that you stopped developing the skills of the 16 year olds about 4 years ago.

 

At the end off the month if you are all camping at the same place that doesn't mean that while awake each patrol must be taking part in the same adventure.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[LongHaul]

OK BW next question, if my New Scouts are by definition the 10.5 to 11 year olds which group do the Troop Guides and Instructors come from? How about the SPL adn ASPLs.

LongHaul

[Bob White]

Troop Guides would have to come from the Experienced Patrols or Venture Patrols wouldn't they?

 

AS a Scoutmaster all my Instructors were at least 16 years old and Star rank or higher, but I can say for sure they should not come from the New Scout Patrols, so they would have to come from the Experienced or Venture Patrols.

 

It is recommended they be at least First Class with good communication skills.

 

The SPL comes from a troop election, the requirements for holding the office determined by the PLC. The ASPLs are selected by the SPL. Since the NEW scouts have no leadership training yet it would seem a poor choice to choose from them unless it was a very new unit with no older scouts.

 

BW

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[LongHaul]

So, making sure we are both using the same terminology, we have; New Scouts 10.5 to say 12 Experienced Scouts 12 to 16(?) and Older Scouts 16 to 18. Is that the break down BW? I'm just trying to visualize the outings and the "Troop" dynamic where most of the Troop separates itself from the New Scouts on outings yet the New Scouts have role model examples and knowledgeable scouts to learn from on a regular basis.

LongHaul

[Bob White]

If you follow the New Scout Patrol framework they are in the NSP until they achieve First Class. Then you look at age and abilities for how long they stay in the Experienced Patrol level. The BSa program suggests that after a scout would progress to a Venture level patrol anytime after the age of 13 when they have sufficient skills for high adventure activities. So it is not just about age it is a balance of age and ability. It becomes the Scoutmasters respponsibility to know the characteristics of each scouts and help them to be in the right program level at an appropriate time.

 

This is a great aide to skill development by being able to show a scout the benefits of obtaining advanced skills in order to move to a higher level of adventure. remember peer pressure can be a positive force not just a negative one.

 

Rememner the New Scouts still have their Troop Guide as well as the ASMfor New Scout Patrols. In addition they do not have to be with the older scouts ALL the time. You can still have a combined program at campfires, prayer services, and even some games.

 

They do not have to be with the older scouts continually to benefit from them, and also remember that they are in the NSP for a very short time frame. Usually only a year or even less. It's just to allow them time to gain the basic skills so that they can be better prepared for their scouting experience.

 

 

[LongHaul]

Sorry BW but I just don't follow your concepts. You seem to be picking things out of training courses and manuals at random. If the NSP does not have the Experienced Patrol to learn from where do they get the basic skills? A single troop guide or an adult (ASM for NSP)? If the Troop guides and Instructors are 16 as you say do they give up the "older boy program" to work with the NSP? I understand the ages and stages and the three tiered instruction but I think you are missing the Troop dynamic in your concept of outdoor program.

 LongHaul

[anarchist]

Longhaul,

 

the patrol method is what BW is try to get to...not the troop method....and in most cases the Guides do "give up" a certain amount of older scout involvement as a cost of being Guides. Just as the SPL is no longer in a patrol, the Guides are guides not members of patrols for their POR time. In our troop we encourage our guides to participate in high adventure program as long as they have their NSP activities covered. It is why we try to have two guides for each NSP. That way one can take some time "off" for older scout activities or school sports etc., while his buddy guide takes over.

 

NSPs can camp along side older boys and frequently do but there are some events and activities they in which can not take part. White water, caving, rappelling, among others.

 

More to the point, with the NSP, their program is more concentrated on basic skills and advancement than the older scouts (1st class/1st year). Even in a troop activities (say a District Camporee)the NSP may actually be doing more Scout skills work than the older scouts in order to take advantage of the time afield.

 

Even troop meetings are more detailed for the NSP as they use much of their time learning scout skills and weaving their needs into the troop program and schedule.

 

If your older scouts are fed pablem year after year most will drop out. They need more challenge and more variety to keep growing...so a multi tiered, multi-purpose program makes for longer retention and a more energetic program.

 

 

 

March crossovers in our neck of the woods are almost a necessity, that is if you feel summer camp is inportant to new scout retention. Leaving aside acclimating new scouts and their parents to the troop and camping in general; most of the nicer East coast summer camps fill quickly and if you are taking 40-60 boys to camp and call the camp in May to "add on" another 7-12 new boys...all you hear is uncontrolled laughter on the other end of the phone...(ie there's no room at the Inn!)

 

anarchist

[Bob White]

Thank you anarchist, you made the point very well. This is about the Patrol Method of scouting, which even for the traditionalists should be a welcomed message. Even B-P said "the Patrol Method is not one way to run a troop, it is the ONLY way."

 

 

[SR540Beaver]

I am coming to this discussion late and confess that I have not read every single post, so if I repeat information that has already been given or sound like I'm coming from left field, I apologize.

 

For the last two years I have been the lead ASM for our NSP. We had 24 new scouts one year and 20 another. This year looks to be a little lighter with only 12 or so crossed over so far. Due to my wife beginning to travel for work, I have chosen to step down as the lead ASM and to continue to assist with the program. I feel like the lead ASM should be someone who can commit to the vast majority of outings and weekends might be the only time I get to see my wife. While she is gone during the week, I can still make meetings and such......but I digress.

 

We attempt to have older scouts serve as TG's and we always have 2 TG's per NSP. Last year, we had 4 TG's who were all at least 14 and Life Scouts. We had the added benefit of 3 of the 4 having had done multiple high adventure treks, so they know their scout skills well. This year, we have 3 TG's that are closer to 13 and Star and only 1 has done high adventure. The other two are solid in their skill however.

 

The preference in our troop is for the boys to crossover before the beginning of March as that is the kickoff for our NSP program each year. Since our district chooses to do Camporee in March instead of in the fall, that is often the first campout the NSP goes on. We run a separate program for them while the other patrols are out competing. We go over campsite selection, tent setup, kitchen setup, how to care for the patrol's equipment, etc. We also set up an axe yard and have them earn their totin' chit and firem'n chit that weekend. This is also their first introduction to patrol cooking and KP. The TG's do 95% of the teaching under the supervision of the ASM's who are within listening distance.

 

At meetings, the whole troop gathers for opening and closing. When it is time for the skill presentation, the NSP goes to a different area and works on skills that are new to them, but boring old hat to the older scouts. We often use selected older scouts and Instructors to supplement what the TG's do. The NSP does a patrol meeting just like the other patrols.

 

While each patrol camps in their own area and have their own seating at meetings, they are right theere together and it isn't long before the new guys and old guys start getting to know one another.

 

The new scouts also have never been bashful about letting us know which patrol they want to go to when the time comes.

 

We make use of the new scout program at summer camp and will even try as much as possible to design our program around what is taught at scout camp so the boys are not repeating advancement they have already been signed off on.

 

We attempt to get them as close to First Class in the first year as possible....but much of that depends on them. We usually move them to regular patrols around November.

 

We do work with the packs and do a fair amount of recruiting work. Each May we hold a weekend campout called Pin Fair where Webelos can come camp with us and earn a couple of pins. We encourage them to cross in February to take advantage of our program that starts in March. We are firm believers that a boy who has had time to get acclimated will be more willing to go to summer camp and that a scout who goes to summer camp is more likely to stay and make First Class. We also believe that a boy who makes First Class, is likely to stay in for the long haul.

 

Our NSP is part of the troop and attends all troop functions, COH, Eagle and service projects, etc. and get to see the example of the older scouts. But they have their own program that revolves aroun their needs as new scouts for most of their first year.

 

This approach has worked well for us and we try to refine it each year.

[Stosh]

2 TG's for every NSP? That's gotta be a major leadership nightmare. PL, APL, 2 TG's and 6 boys. Toss in a SPL and ASPL to run interference and the new boys will suffocate!

 

I have 1 TG for 3 NSP's. Works just fine. He gives guidance and the PL an APL's run the patrols without someone getting in their way.

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

The program is designed for there to be 1 Troop Guide for each New Scout Patrol. The idea is to be a personal coach to the patrol leader, and to help represent the patrol at the PLC.

[Eagledad]

>>If your older scouts are fed pablem year after year most will drop out. They need more challenge and more variety to keep growing...so a multi tiered, multi-purpose program makes for longer retention and a more energetic program.