help desperately needed with tour permit

[BelindaB]

I am in a world of trouble. I have been den leader for 3 years mostly because no one else would do it. I have basic leader training. I took the lead in organizing a pack overnight trip to camp on an aircraft carrier. We started in September. Money is paid and around 50 people are ready to go in a month's time. Each cub scout is accompanied by a parent. Filling out the tour permit I discover that no one in our Pack has Baloo training. Our cubmaster has Woodbadge. We camp 3 times a year. I assumed he had it. Scout office says we need Baloo even though we are not going to be outside just on the ship.

I am also told by Scout office that the aircraft carrier will ask for this. I have one leader who says he had the boy scout equivalent in the late 90's.

I know I should have figured all this out before and that I should have done the training. But what do I do now? We will lose money and disappoint a lot of kids.

My son is moving up to Boy Scouts and going to a different troop not related to this Pack. So this is my last issue.

 

 

[Eamonn]

Give the District Training Chairman a call ask him for a list of people who have taken the training.

Call people on the list and invite one to come with you.

Or ask the Training Chair if there is some way he can do a one on one training ASAP.

Ea.

[Lisabob]

I'd second Eamonn's suggestion. If you aren't sure who your training chair is, or you can't get hold of that person, or they don't help you, call your District Executive (professional scouter who works at the council office). Another suggestion is to call up leaders from some other local packs with whom you are friendly and ask if they have a BALOO trained person who can attend as your pack's guest.

 

Please note there is no "boy scout equivalent" of BALOO.

 

[Oak Tree]

We've camped on an aircraft carrier and I can assure you that no one asked for any evidence of Baloo training. I'd be really surprised if that were to happen. I can't imagine why the aircraft carrier would care. I can believe that your Scout office would care, I just can't believe that the carrier people would.

 

I'll agree with Eamonn's and Lisabob's suggestions.

 

But I can also tell you that I wouldn't let this cause the trip to be cancelled if you can't find someone. You've obviously been camping a bunch of times without a BALOO-trained person and survived. This trip would be the same.

[eisely]

I am stunned and amazed that anybody in your council would think that BALOO has anything to do with overnighting in an aircraft carrier. Nevertheless, if that is your local council policy you have little choice. The suggestion to seek someone with the training is probably your best bet.

[fgoodwin]

Welcome to the forums.

 

Nothing in national policy says you need BALOO training to camp overnight on an aircraft carrier, as long as the program planning, activities, etc. are all run by staff on the carrier.

 

BALOO is for outdoor camping, not overnight outings where you're staying indoors, like a museum lock-in.

 

Its entirely possible that whoever you talked-to either did not understand the nature of your trip, or was completely mistaken about the requirements for BALOO.

 

OTOH, its possible your local council requires BALOO even for outings where you're not planning anything, like this trip to the carrier. If I were you, I'd talk to your DE and ask for a second opinion.

 

Unless it is indeed a local council policy (and I would get confirmation of that from a second source), you might also refer this person to BSA pub 13-631, the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines. It clearly specifies that BALOO is required for a pack overnight campout, but it is not required for an "excursion" (e.g., to a museum) even an excursion involving an overnight stay.

 

However, it does indicate such trips are subject to local council approval, and I suppose that could mean local councils imposing a BALOO requirement even though national does not require it.

[Knight]

I'm BALOO trained - I'll go! Eh - too far away - darn.

[Lisabob]

Our council also requires BALOO for overnighters like "cubs on subs." We don't have an aircraft carrier but I imagine they'd expect it if we did. Right or wrong, that's how it is in some places. We even needed it to do a lock in at the local zoo a couple years ago.

[Knight]

You can try sending a "BALOO needed - URGENT" email to your district roundtable/leader email distribution list. I'd bet you'll get someone jumping in to help you quickly.

[scottteng]

"Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO) is a one-day training event that introduces leaders and parents to the skills needed to plan and conduct pack outdoor activities, particularly pack camping."

http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/training/baloo.aspx

BALOO is not just for camping it is for any outdoor outing even a trip to the park. There is a logical progression to training a WEBELOS leader gets WALOO as part of his training regiment. A Scoutmaster or Assistant gets IOLS introduction to outdoor leader skills. We get a lot of calls when Woodbadge classes are forming for IOLS as SM's and ASM's are informed that their basic training is not complete without it. BALOO is naturally the less rigorous course no overnight needed. WALOO and IOLS involve actual camping the Boy Scout leaders 2 nights the WEBELOS leaders come in Sat AM and join the troop just as their charges will. There are some cub breakouts on Sat. The training continues through campfire and Sun AM sessions.

[mk9750]

Perhaps we are fortunate in our district, but if a Cub Leader in our District were to call the District Training chair here, and could get at least a couple people from the Pack to go through the training together, he would set up a Saturday or Sunday session in your home on short notice.

 

I've witnessed him doing this before, and his only real requirement is that you put enough people through the training so that not having a BALOO trained adult cannot be an issue for your Pack in the next few of years.

 

If you are going to the Buffalo Naval Shipyards, your Cubs are in for a treat. I did this trip three times in my 7 years as a Cub Leader. It is a wonderful time. If so, let me offer one other suggestion. the timing of arrival at the ship (@ 4:00 Saturday, and departure @ 10:00 Sunday, if I remember right) lends itself to a side trip to sight see at the falls. If so, most people agree that the Canadian side of the falls is the better trip. If you are doing that, make sure that you don't cause yourself a hassle at the border. Make sure every Scout has a permission slip signed by the parent who is NOT with you giving permission to take the boy across the border.

 

Good luck and have fun!

 

Mark

[fgoodwin]

scottteng, I invite you to take a look at pub 13-631, the Cub Scout Outdoor Program Guidelines (2007-08 edition):

 

http://old.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-631.pdf

 

It states clearly that BALOO is required for pack overnight camping. Under non-camping trips & excursions, no mention is made of BALOO. National could very easily have included a BALOO requirement for all non-camping trips and excursions, but did not.

 

That's not to say councils can't make it a requirement, but national doesn't.

 

Also, I'm not trying to start a fight -- just trying to make a distinction between local policy vs. national policy. I agree its a good idea to have a BALOO-trained person come along even on non-camping trips & excursions.(This message has been edited by fgoodwin)

[BelindaB]

Thanks for all your help. At least now I don't feel so alone.

We reserved our exact number of places months ago, so it might be hard to take an extra person at this point. Also it's unlikely we could find a Baloo trained person from another Pack who could go. We are several hours away from the aircraft carrier (Yorktown). If nothing else works I will try that.

First, we are going to call the Yorktown and ask if a tour permit is required by them. A Scout executive told me they would ask for it, but it's not in any of the Yorktown literature we've received.

Then my husband (who is very diplomatic) is going to in to the Scout office to see if they could either waive their requirement or give some special emergency training.

 

 

[Knight]

Other than once at a Boy Scout summer camp, I've never had anyone ask to see our tour permit - Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts. It's always been there - along with the Guide to Safe Scouting and health forms - but no one ever asks for it.

 

That does not mean you should not have a BALOO person if it is required - just don't go expecting someone to say "Halt! Let me se your Tour Permit!"

[beaver1onit]

In all the years I have been on trips I was never asked to see my tour permit.(always had one filled out) But if something happens on the trip (some serious injury) you could have serious liability problems if you didn't have one filled out.