Uniform Not Required

[RangerT]

While I agree that the methods of scouting are important and should be followed there are also certain CO'S that have completely restructured them to meet their own agenda, the LDS church is a good example, uses scouting to prepare their boys for their mission. It sounds like Pappy has created a pre Vatican II Catholic Ranger troop using only what he wants to from the methods of the BSA. These inconsistencies in program delivery are what causes a lot of problems for the BSA. However, close your eyes Bob, if a unit shows growth, advancement and contributes nicely to FOS each year most councils don't really seemed too concerned with the program it delivers. Signing the agreement only states that you will use the elements of the BSA, it does not state which ones or how much of each one, but it is not a legal agreement. As for the title of this thread can it really be scouting without some type of uniform? In Venturing the teens pick their own uniform but it does give the crew some type of visual identity when on activities. At a particular event two adults approached my teens to compliment them on how their uniforms looked, they responded with such pride it was great to see.

[Gold Winger]

" As for the title of this thread can it really be scouting without some type of uniform?"

 

Why not?

[Bob White]

The Adult Association Method is no more "required" than any other method. Perhaps you were confusing Adult Asssociation with two-deep leadership, and they are not the same thing.

[Gold Winger]

No Bob, I wasn't confusing them.

 

BTW, you do know that "two deep leadership" is only required for outings. Don't you.

[Bob White]

Actually that is not what the policy states. Do what made you think the Adult Association Method is "required"?

[evmori]

If I may GW.

 

To charter a BSA unit, there needs to be a minimum number of adults signed up as leaders. There also needs to be minimum number of boys. Adult Association has to happen!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[OldGreyEagle]

But Ed, by your own words numerous times you have pointed out that the unoform is not required, its only one of the eight methods. Now, where does it say that Adult Association is required?. A troop could form, the SPL emails the Scoutmaster with a plan for a patrol outing and the scoutmaster emails back the approval. The patrol members could never see the scoutmaster or know one exists.

 

Or do you think that because the scoutmaster is an adult and they work with the unit that is what is meant by adult asssociation?

[evmori]

Without adults, you have no unit. Without uniforms, a unit can still exist.

 

[Hiromi]

I have a100 percent uniformed organization.

 

The Boy Scouts just formed their own patrol last night (six Boy Scouts).

 

The Cub Scouts have been put into two dens of 7 each. The only deviation from BSA proper uniforms is that everyone at my CO's scouting organization wears the Khaki Tan and either Campaign cover or green baseball cap ( depending on the activity).

 

Yesterday the newly formed Dens and Patrol voted on individualized neckerchiefs, designed there own Den and Patrol flags, mottos, and yells. (Allowing a lot of patrol culture into the den experience).

 

My female ASM has volunteered to help me sew the new 32 inch traditional neckers. The boy scouts voted on pitch black necker. There patrol name in Anonymous. Their patrol motto is Qui sono noi? (Italian boy in the troop told them it is Italian for Who are we?. Their flag will have a big question mark as its symbol.

 

The Cub Scout dens chose Forest Green and Navy Blue. They are the Cobras and the Anacondas. Their mottos are "Do or Die!" (From the George M. Cohan song I suppose!) and "Good scouts make good leaders."

 

Each Den has two Denners. The Scout patrol are all Den chiefs (red, blue, and gold double chord) with one boy voted as Den Chief in charge of Denners.

 

We now hold both joint and separate meetings.

 

This change was made in large part by the input I have received from the contributors on this site. Thanks fellas and ladies, especially Beava, Old GRey Eagle, Lisabob, Nessmuk, and (I grudgingly admit) Bob White .

 

The boys were ecstatic about the changes and glad to see my role in the unit diminished as theirs has increased (Isn't that what John the Baptist said about JC??)

 

Anyways- the boys love their uniforms- they really love their new patrol leader patches and shoulder chords - we call them foogareys from the French. (I cant find the right spelling on that!)

 

I really do not like scouting without uniforms. It feels wrong and way too casual. The CO school is uniformed- so the boys and their families are already acclimatized to uniform culture.

 

The public seems pretty enamored of my boys and their khaki tans and campaign covers (Smokey bear hats). I suppose it is because it is reminiscent of something older in American culture. It is also a very clean and handsome ensemble, and the boys wear it with pride.

 

Also- I think it imporatant that adult leadership have a full uniform as well, as we do.

 

 

 

Pappy

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[FScouter]

Of course ALL of the methods are REQUIRED. The difference is in how each unit, through it chartered organization, decides to implement the methods. We all know that boys in different parts of the country or even in the same town, are "different" than they are down in Irving Texas. Yah, it takes the wisdom of the CO to know how best to serve their boys and provide the best kind of program to best meet the goals of the CO, eh? Of course that means that the CO, through its COR, committee, and Scoutmaster must wade through all of the superfluous fluff provided by BSA and take only the parts they have decided have value. That requires an evaluation of each of the methods.

 

In this topic we've already determined that the uniform method is "optional" by reading the line in the Boy Scout Handbook that says a boy is not required to have a uniform in order to be a member. That's the same as saying the uniform method is optional, right? Each individual boy can determine what constitutes his uniform when he shows up for any Scouting event. If he's wearing pink pedal pushers, that's his uniform for the day. Simple. If the unit wants to get fancy, they can add a uniform section to their troop bylaws to make it all legal like. We always follow the laws right?

 

And as Ed has so eloquently espoused, the Adult Association method means there must be a minimum number of adults "associated" with the unit by having their name listed on the charter paperwork. Theres nothing in the paperwork that says they have to associate with boys. See how simple this really is?

 

[Bob White]

So if I am understanding you correctly Ed your understanding of the Adult Association Methods has to do with having enough adults on the charter to have a scout unit. Is that accurate? If not then could you explain what your understanding of the Adult Association Method is.

[evmori]

No Bob you are not understanding me correctly nor is your statement accurate.

 

Adult Association happens. When a boy joins a unit, he interacts with adults hence Adult Association in it's rawest form.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gold Winger]

"we call them foogareys from the French. (I cant find the right spelling on that!)"

 

The word is "fourragere" and you're using it incorrectly, a "fourragere" represents an award.

 

The den chief cord would be an aiguillette, a shoulder cord which indicates a special position.

 

While I'm on terminology, why do you call it a "campaign cover"? I know that the Navy and Marines call caps covers but the Marine Corps name for the Smokey hat is the "Field Hat" and the Army calls it a "Campaign Hat." B-P called it the cowboy hat. Stetson called it "Boss of the Plains." It's generic name is Montana Peak Hat. Interestingly, other countries refer to them as "Stetsons" no matter who made them.

[Gold Winger]

"No Bob you are not understanding me correctly nor is your statement accurate."

 

Does that surprise you? Bob thought that I was referring to "two deep leadership" and it looks like he doesn't understand that either.

 

Standing by for moderation.

[Hiromi]

Gold Winger,

 

Thanks for the correction. Duly Noted. I like Boss of the Plains!Our town's founders are refered to as those that "Broke the Priaire", so it fits. We'll go with that.

 

Pappy