CC Troubles

[elizdaddio]

What can a parent or group of parents do when they are dissatisfied with the job that their SM and CC are doing? The real frustration is with the CC. I don't really want to get into all of the specifics, but the choices the CC and SM are making have not given our boys the best scouting experience possible. Some have even gone against BSA policy. Several Committee members wish to replace the CC. Can anyone tell me what the process is for replacing a CC? My second question is, our troop has an annual steak dinner. The troop provides, cooks and serves the dinner. The CO opens it's bar at that time and sells drinks to adults who are having dinner. My family and several other families have boycotted the dinner due to the sale of alcohol. The SM insists that it's alright since "it's technically a CO function". My opinion is that if scouts are there, in full uniform, hosting a fundraiser dinner, it's a troop function and should therefore not condone the sale of alcohol! Does anyone know the BSA policy on this? The troop receives money from the dinner but not the bar. This is not a case of a few disgruntled parents. I am a leader in the troop as well. I've grown up in scouting and have a deep passion for the scouting experience. I have had meeting after meeting with the CC and was basically told "Some things will never change" and to "stop being so critical of the troop!" It's not the troop that I'm critical of, it's the lack of leadership and true scouting these boys are missing. What we've learned is that as long as they are in power, nothing will change. I wish it was as simple as leaving the troop. My son has built strong relationships with his patrol and worries about what will happen to them if he leaves. There are no other suitable units in our town either. What we want is to fix the one we have. My family and I, as well as the rest of the concerned parents are dedicated to make this troop an the boys experience, something they will always look back on with fond memories. As of right now, I'm the only parent/leader that has grown up in scouting. The others have no idea what scouting is supposed to truly be about. I'm not looking for criticism from others about how difficult it is to be a SM. I would jump at the chance if it was opened to me! Our SM has been with the troop for over 30 years.In his eyes, this is HIS troop. He only comes to meetings and those are chaos at best. Our calendar only can go 2-3 months ahead because he can't handle anything else. We've tried to take burdens off his shoulders, but he feels the need to control EVERYTHING, including the checkbook. The CC is one of his former Eagles and he protects the SM with a vengeance. My concern has been to show these boys what scouting is truly about. My son has only pitched his tent a couple times in the past 2 years. The troop version of "camping" is to stay indoors at our CO, eat ice cream and watch movies. Our COR passed away and we have no replacement. What I/we are looking for is some REAL suggestions. We feel that we have no choice except to remove the CC from his position so we can implement some real, positive change. Please help. From what I've read, you all have a great deal of experience and insight. We truly could use your help right now. Thanks so much!

[Stosh]

I think it's time for everyone, CO, CO Rep, CC, SM, Committee, Leadership, and parents all in the same room. Have an outside party (maybe the UC) "chair" the proceedings and let everyone have a chance to express their concerns about the situation. Keep the proceedings focused on the welfare of the troop and not on personalities. Let someone with good group dynamic skills and conflict management skills referee.

 

Good luck!

 

Stosh

 

 

[Oak Tree]

The official answer is that the CO can change the CC. The head of the CO would have the ultimate power to do this.

 

But I think you should go with Stosh's answer first. You need to get to a common vision for the troop. If the CC and SM have a vision and are happy with it, it's going to be tough to change. How many parents are unhappy? Getting them all to talk about what they hope for in a troop might get some good response from the CC/SM. Or it may not.

 

But unless someone has a good relationship with the head of the CO, I don't think he or she would be likely to take program complaints as a good reason to fire the SM.

[hotdesk]

1) I see some possible safety concerns as far as the dinner goes. The first would be that scouts are forced to be around adults that are drinking. They are subject to those that may not be able to handle their alchol. I as a parent would be VERY CONCERNED about this.

 

2) It sounds like your CO may be a VFW or American Legion??? You also said that you do not have a COR?

 

The first thing that I would do is have a Parent's meeting. Feel free to invite the Scoutmaster and Committee Chairman. Make it very clear that the parents are incharge of the meeting and that it is to address concerns. Then make sure that all the parents get a chance to share their concerns and get on the same page.

 

Next, I would nominate one of the parents (hopefully a business person or long time scouter)to approach the head of the organization and find out when or if a replacement was named. If not I would ask that a person be named. If the head of the organization is against this I would find out who the District Exective or District Director is and contact them to discuss the appointment of the COR with the head of the organization.

 

The next step would be to sit down with the COR and let him or her know of the parent's concerns. Then wait and see if things change (give it a couple of months).

 

If things do not change I would request that a meeting be set with the COR, SM, CC, UC, and a couple of parents (that would represent all of the parents). Here all the concerns can be readdressed and solutions can be developed as a group.

 

IT IS A LONG PROCESS. Your Scoutmaster is unlikely to change his ideas and plans. However, it is important that the Scoutmaster and Committee Chairman do the following:

 

1) Follow the guidelines in the Guidelines to Safe Scouting. First and foremost should be the safety of the scouts.

 

2) Keep updated in training. Know that there are to be at least 3 members on the Committee and that they should have clear job descriptions.

 

As with money Boy Scouts does heavily suggest that at least two signers be on all accounts. Usually this people would be the Committee Chairman, Treasurer, and/or Chartered Organization Rep.

 

3)Be willing to delegate power to the other Committee Members and the Program "power" to the Patrol Leader's Council.

 

4)Follow the Boy Scout Program.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm....

 

Hard situation, daddio, and one that's been goin' on for a bit I see from your other posts.

 

Easy answers first:

 

If the fundraising dinner is a CO event and the CO is running the bar, you are not going to be able to change that. Yeh can have your son not attend, of course, if yeh think that seeing adults drink alcohol is bad for him. But yeh gotta let that issue go.

 

The second thing to recognize is that what you think as a parent, and indeed what all of the parents think doesn't matter. Leastways, it doesn't matter any more than it does at your son's school. Parents don't control the school, it's a service provided by professionals and an elected board on behalf of da taxpayers. Parents don't control the troop, it's a service provided by the CO. They get to decide the leadership, period.

 

So, to replace your CC, yeh go to the President of the Chartered Org., which I assume is a VFW or a social/service club like Moose or such (?).

 

Recognize that if the CO agrees with you and ousts the CC, you will also lose the SM, the ASM, and at least a few of the families, and generate a lot of ill will. It might kill the troop.

 

Recognize that if the CO doesn't agree with you and opts to keep the CC and the SM, you've burned your bridges and sunk the boats. For all intents and purposes, you'll have to remove yourself from the troop.

 

Now, are there other options? Yah, maybe. What jblake suggests might be one, but only if it's conducted in a low-key, friendly, focused way, eh? Not a litany of different complaints, but rather a "hey, we'd like to move toward the BSA recommendation of one campout a month" (or whatever your chief complaint is). Getting a general consensus on a reasonable, non-threatening "step" is a step, eh? As jblake says, though, it takes everyone bein' willing to set aside personalities, and it takes a really savvy "referee."

 

My guess is that you're too "hot" to participate in that approach if it's gonna work, eh?

 

Which leaves you with the Start a New Troop option. You've expressed a willingness to be SM. Now yeh need an ASM, a committee, and an organization to sponsor you as their youth program. How about your church?

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

elizdaddio

 

Lots of questions to answer but I will try to get to them al.

 

It's not a problem if the location for a troop diner is selling alcohol as long as no one in the unit is drinking it. Alcohol may not be comsumed by adults in the unit when scouts are present, this would include the parents.

 

As an example the CO for our ship srves alcohol in their dinning room where our ship meets every month or two for a formal dinner. During that time while other dinners have drinks, the leaders of the ship and any parents present do not.

 

We participate in boat races that often have beer available for the racers afterwards. We do not participate in that "fellowship" opportunity but go do other things.

 

But to have alcohol on BSA property or when youth members are present is a violation of BSA safety policies.

 

No, as parents you have no authority in the approval or removal of any adult leader in any position. You have influence but no authority.

 

The CC is approved by the Charter organization Representative and the Institutional Head of the chartering organization, not by the parents or the committee members. Again, you can influence that choice, but you have no authority to make the choice.

 

The same is true of all other registered positions in the unit.

 

Unfortunatley the Dictator Scoutmaster is all too common especially among the newest and the oldest leaders. There is little you can do about it other than becoming the persopn in the organization who has the authority to create change, or to make the change yourself by going to a different unit.

 

If the charter organization head is comfortable with the status quo then the chances of change happening is very slim. It would seem that the most likely way to make your feelings known is to have a parents meeting with the Scoutmaster and Committee to make your feelings known about the program, and ask that changes be considered. If the CC and Scoutmaster do not seem open to those changes then I see no other course for the families than to leave the troop.

 

Units that have leaders who follow the program do not have these kinds of problems.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

Bob White has the policy down correctly (although I as a parent, do have direct control over at least one registered leader in the troop - me. My wife, anoather parent, has direct control over two registered leaders - me again and herself.)

 

How does your son feel? To me, you have to weigh your son's desires with your own. Coup d'etats rarely accomplish much in Scouting. A non-accusatorial plan by a sub-committee of committe members that map out program changes (crawl first before you walk and then run) could be presented in a non-threatening manner to the SM and existing CC.

 

If all else fails, i.e. you feel you have no capability to change things from within, I suggest you step down as a leader and let you son (with no bias from you) decide his plan of action.

[elizdaddio]

Thank you all for your input. It has helped me out a great deal. I have passed your ideas onto the parent who approached me about replacing the CC. I like the idea of the parent/leader meeting. I think this could have the potential for being a valuable tool for any troop. I took some of your suggestions of the meeting to the parent along with the idea to contact our UC or council to provide a mediator. My son loves the guys in his troop. He has come up with many of them all the way through Cubs. Although, he is terribly frustrated with the fact that the troop never camps, hikes or participates in outdoor activites. He feels like we did more in Webelos then he does now. We'll try the meeting first in the hopes that some cooperative refocusing can happen. If that fails, then unfortunately, some very difficult decisions have to be made on the part of our family. As you can see from my previous posts, this has gone on for too long and the burden really has caused too much stress on our family, which it really shouldn't. Thank you all again, and I'll keep you posted.

[acco40]

If your son's biggest beef is a lack of camping activities - read The Scoutmaster Handbook and have your son read the Patrol Leader's Guide on the topic of patrol outings. Bottom line, no Scoutmaster required! Although, the patrol does need his approval, he is not obligated to attend (nor any other adult for that matter).