Chartering Organization and The Scout Unit.

[Eamonn]

During my term as a District Chairman each and every month I mailed all of our COR's a postcard reminding them about the District Meeting.

The District had about 40 units which were chartered by about 16 organizations.

As a rule we seen two COR's at the meeting and these were fellows who were involved in Scouting in some-other position.

At the big annual Council meeting when we held the elections, again every COR was invited and in the over ten years I attended I never seen a single COR.

 

From what I have seen nearly all Chartering Organizations have very little idea about what the Scout unit really does.

Even the CO's that do know only know what we tell them.

 

The Ship is chartered by our local Elks. They hold a monthly meeting and the Ship is an agenda item. When I was Skipper I would write a few lines for the COR to read at the meeting telling them what we had done and were planning to do. The COR did attend our Ship's Management Committee meetings. I don't know what he had to say? As I wasn't at the meetings.

 

While I was serving as District Commissioner and then District Chairman, a lot of times the only communication I got from the CO was when something was going wrong.

Most times it seemed to me that the CO didn't seem to understand that the unit was part of their organization.

I'd get a call telling me that "The Scouts" had left the church hall in a mess. Or that they (The CO) needed more room and we would have to move our tents!!

 

While I'm sure that there are chartering organizations that do take an active role in the program offered by Scout Units, I have to say that there is very little evidence of it in our area.

I'm not just talking about the CO's who only sign the charter once a year, but even the better ones really don't know what their Scout unit is doing.

Eamonn.

 

[Scoutmaster Ron]

Are CO knows we meet at their facility, other than that..nothing

[infoscouter]

I have some friends who are the Cubmaster and Webelos leader in a local pack, chartered by a Lutheran Church. There is also a troop chartered by the same church, although the two units didn't interact very much.

 

Early last summer the Scoutmaster informed the church that she was stepping down, as the last of the boys she had brought over from Webelos had earned his Eagle.

 

The church actually took the chartering relationship seriously enough, that they came to my friends and asked them to take over as SM and CC.

 

It's amazing, because the troop did very little for the church. Now, my friends have worked really hard at cultivating a relationship with the church and its members - doing service projects, etc., so the church leadership had some idea of what a good chartered relationship is like.

 

Out of 96 units in our district, I would guess that less than a dozen have this kind of relationship.

[eisely]

The experience cited here is consistent with my experience. Very few chartered organizations do very much for their units beyond providing a place to meet, if that.

[Beavah]

Yah, it's true.

 

Then we have to ask the question of "Why?" Why don't the CO's know?

 

Around here, the bigger guys do - the LDS and Catholics by and large understand the relationship and use it well; the Methodists somewhat. I reckon the LDS and the Catholics benefit because they have their own nationwide institutions to inform/train/assist the locals, eh?

 

But for churches or social organizations or PTOs and such that don't have that kind of nationwide organization, I reckon it's up to the BSA and its volunteers to properly inform and maintain good relationships, eh? That's where it breaks down. A lot of SE's don't really want lots of independent-minded COR types on "their" council boards or pushin' things at an annual meeting. A lot more pros are really concerned that if the CO's truly understood the responsibilities and risks they were takin' on, they would drop their units. And that might be true, eh? But are those the CO's we really want in the first place?

 

As I've said before, I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of DE's that actually took their responsibility of meeting with each IH at least once during the year seriously. Eamonn is one of the rare birds who actually mailed a reminder about a district meeting, but then I think yeh also have to look at what they're being invited to, eh? Most district meetings tend to be just scouting details - info on the next camporee and such. An IH or COR can't contribute to that, eh? It's a waste of his/her time. If yeh want to get the big guys out, you put them on a real board of directors and you meet at most quarterly.

 

So I think the weak link is the BSA councils. The big CO's work the system through the regional and national Relationships Committees, and then inform their member congregations to some degree through their own channels. The smaller or less structured COs don't do as effective need the councils to draw 'em in. And the councils just don't do the job.

 

(edited to add...)

Now, maybe it should be that all unit FOS and popcorn revenues go exclusively to the CO, and then the CO gets to decide how much goes to the council. That might make 'em get serious about developin' strong CO relationships, eh?

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Stosh]

Our CO provides a great meeting place, storage place for gear and trailer, pays the chartering fee and all the registrations including a Boy's Life subscription for every boy.

 

Stosh

[Nessmuk]

This reminds me of the time I gave a Scout troop a tour of the facility where I work ( my boss knew I was active in Scouts, so he asked me to do the tour).. While talking to the Scoutmaster about various Scout stuff, I asked him who their CO is... He and the other leaders had NO IDEA - and proceeded to scratch their heads on it for a while still with no answer!! That was one extreme..

 

I have had some success with our CO in the last two years with the concept that the "Pack is their youth program".. We do a service project with them now twice a year.. Meals on Wheels - They cook the meals in their kitchen and Cubs deliver them to the shut-in elderly folks. We always get a picture and story in the paper together. Last year for the first time we participated in a public flag ceremony with them at our local festival.. It went real well and we both got press together.. We have come "a ways" since the days and times a few years back when we got "read the riot act" for leaving masking tape on the floor after a Pack Meeting!

 

Also, The org leaders will be invited to the Blue & Gold and we will have a re-charter ceremony then too.. (if the charter comes in time !!)

 

Finally, I try to get myself invited to their executive meeting once a year to give an annual report (short talk and then I hand over a written report).. summarize activities, membership & finances etc..

 

It's a lot of work, but as they say - "It's all about relationships"!

 

If your CO is a national organization, they probably have a letter of endorsement for the BSA from the national level.. Go to Scouting.org to find a bunch of different org's letters.. In my first annual report to our CO, I put excerpts from such a letter (with organization's logo etc) in the front matter and the full letter in the back.. It gets their attention when they realize they are doing something that is encouraged at their national level..

 

 

 

[Axeman]

"A lot of SE's don't really want lots of independent-minded COR types on "their" council boards or pushin' things at an annual meeting."

 

"Most district meetings tend to be just scouting details - info on the next camporee and such. An IH or COR can't contribute to that, eh? It's a waste of his/her time."

 

I do not understand why an IH or COR cannot contribute to the details of scouting within a District or Council. Shouldnt he details of scouting in a District reflect the (collective) desire of the chartered partners, rather than the will of a handful of self-appointed members-at-large?

 

Every second Tuesday of the month I waste several hours attending a District committee meeting. After a year of this I still do not know where the actual work of the District committee is being conducted.

[Beavah]

Yah DDibben, I think you hit the nail on the head, eh? DC meetings are typically boring/waste/mess. When they're not, they tend to be "worker bee" meetings - details like who is doing camporee check-in and where the forms are.

 

Good CORs and IHs (especially!) are very busy people, and are "big picture" people. If we bring a pastor to a district committee meeting to listen to someone complain about last year's hot dogs at the pinewood derby being cold, he's never going to return, eh?

 

If we want CORs and IHs, it better be for something substantive that merits their attention and expertise, and it better be run professionally not amateur-hour.

 

B

 

[Venividi]

 

>A lot of SE's don't really want lots of independent-minded COR types >on "their" council boards or pushin' things at an annual meeting. A >lot more pros are really concerned that if the CO's truly understood >the responsibilities and risks they were takin' on, they would drop >their units. And that might be true, eh? But are those the CO's we >really want in the first place?

 

That may be so, but I will offer another possible reason for the lack of participation of CO representatives at the district level. The church that chartered the troop that I worked with chartered the troop as one thing out of many programs. In addition to the troop, this church offered a middle school youth group, high school youth group, senior groups, mens groups, and a whole raft of other community outreach groups. All of them require volunteers that are willing and able to devote their time and energy (not just scouters devote more than an hour a week). The CO is in a position where they have to allocate their limited volunteer resources. And if they view boy scouting as a franchised package that they are able to sponsor, and the unit is not causing them any problems, then the CO's volunteers can be directed towards other programs that may be more heavily dependent on their own resources. I think it is more than just topics such as cold hot dogs that are issues the CO rep doesn't want to spend time with. I think that most CO's are not concerned with whether their scouts have to participate in anti-bullying activities in order to advance to first class, whether active = rostered, and any number of issues more weighty than hot dogs at pinewood derby. I think that basically, the view among many CO's is that they outsourced the scouting program, and happy with "delegating" even major program decisions to the franchisor.

 

As you say, those units that see and use scouting as a major component of their youth program are more likely to devote more of the CO's available volunteer time to overseeing it.

[Axeman]

[vent mode]

 

In our District

 

the reason for the lack of participation of CO representatives at the District level is that the CORs are unwelcome.

 

CORs are considered to be Unit scouters. Unit scouters do not belong at District committee meetings.

 

District scouters want financial support and compliance from the Unit scouters, believing that they, by virtue of their position in the District, are more knowledgeable and therefore more empowered. Active CORs represent empowerment of the chartered partners (CAC!).

 

the District committee members protect their authority. Cronyism, not meritocracy, is de rigueur.

 

the District committee does not support the scouting program of the chartered partners as much as dictate the scouting program to the units.

 

[/vent mode]

 

I suppose it could just be me- I am one of those independent-minded COR types pushin' things.

 

Scouting used to be fun.

 

[Eamonn]

I'm going to spin off and we can talk about the role of the District Committee.

I have been an adult leader of a Pack chartered by the RC church which I'm a member of.

The Parish Priest who was there before I got involved with the Pack liked kids, did a lot for the school and the youth organizations that the church was connected with.

Sadly the priest that came after him was the exact opposite. He didn't seem to like kids, seen the school as taking money from the church and while he tolerated they church youth group and the Pack, saying that he supported them? Might be an overstatement.

The COR was a member of the Parish Council, who also served as the Church Youth Group Leader. He had served as a Den Leader. (His son decided not to cross over into Boy Scouts)

He was and is a very nice guy. But he was busy with the youth group and only attended Pack Committee Meetings when it seemed that there was a problem. (Most problems seemed to be about the priest allowing other groups to use the Church Hall when the monthly Pack Meeting was supposed to be there!!)

This Priest has now been moved and the Priest that is there now is a bit more supportive. There is a Boy Scout Troop , but the Pack has folded. The COR is a friend of a friend who is a ASM! I see him every now and then in the Elks where he was a member of their Committee.

As Cubmaster, District Commissioner and District Chair. I have tried to work with the COR's and the PP.

I have visited the PP given him reports of what has been going on. At one time the Relationship Department had a magazine that I to them to mail to him.

I'm very friendly with the Priest who the Diocese has given Scouting to as part of his job. (A few years back he served as the Council VP - Membership) We have met for dinner several times and discussed the apathy that some Priests show, his take on it is that it all depends on the individual priest.

 

Yesterday I had a phone call Stuart from a pal of mine in the UK. He called to tell me that he is getting married. Stuart and myself have been close friends for going on 40 years!!

Back in the early 80's, he came over as an International Camp Counselor (Sound familiar!!) He ended up somewhere near Salt Lake City. Some time after he converted from being a RC to joining the LDS Church.

We talked on the phone for over an hour and of course Scouts and Scouting came up.

He said that the LDS Church does not have anything to do with UK Scouting since they allowed gay leaders to serve.

I'm not sure if he is right or not but he tells me that they (the church) is also no longer supporting Scouting in Canada and Australia.

While I know he didn't in any way mean it as a threat, he went on to say that if the BSA falls (His words)The BSA is going to lose a lot of financial support.

I don't know very much about LDS Scout units, we have one in our Council. I have attended an Eagle Scout COH at the church and was very impressed. At the time the husband of my boss was the Bishop. While the Troop did seem strong the Pack wasn't doing so well. I put it down to peaks and valleys.

From what I have heard the LDS Church in the USA does use the BSA Program, but with permission from the BSA has made some changes so it works hand in hand with the churches youth ministry.

I don't know how active each LDS Church is with the Scouting program it offers to the youth it serves?

I do know that my Ex-bosses husband did attend PTC for a conference on LDS Scouting.

I wonder if like the RC units it is left up to the local Bishop as to how involved or not involved the church is?

 

We do seem to at times talk about the CO adapting the program to fit the needs of the CO.

I'm not sure if this happens a lot?

From what I see a good many if not most CO don't know enough about what is going on to adapt anything.

Some if they are lucky will get an annual visit from the DE.

I'm not sure what they talk about? But I'll guess it's more or less a "How's it going? Any problems? See you next year!" type conversation.

Sure units will turn up on Scout Sunday, some will do good turns for the CO.

But as far as the program goes? They don't know, they don't have any idea.

They accept that the people selected to provide the program are following the BSA program.

I'm sure that the RC Priest kinda expects that the RC Scouts are going to attend mass, the Rabbi expects that all the dietary guidelines are being followed and so on.

But at the end of the day it is the leaders who deliver the program and it seems to me that the CO's take what is offered.

Eamonn.

 

 

 

[fgoodwin]

DDibben, your district might consider CORs to be unit Scouters, but they are not.

 

COR is a district position (they wear silver tabs).

 

P39 of the Insignia Guide (my issue is dated 2003) shows the COR patch listed under "Council and District Badges of Office.

[Axeman]

Sir, with respect, the position of COR is that of a Council scouter.

 

Rules and Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America, Article VIII, Section 1, Clause 2.

 

"Unit Scouters. All adult members registered with the unit, except the chartered organization representative who shall be considered a council Scouter."

 

My District considers CORs to be unit scouters. When I became a COR I researched the position thoroughly. The contemptuous looks I received the first time I wore silver tabs to Roundtable were worth the time spent in researching the uniform requirements.

 

[Bob White]

The relationship between a unit and a charter organization is not unliek a marriage relationship. At the very beginning it was probably wonderful. What it becomes over the years depends in how much effort is put into the relationship.

 

Who is more responsible for maintaing a marriage the husband or the wife? What causes one to become less interested in the other?

 

Each is responsible but one over time one feels neglected by the other they will wander away. If you want to save the relationship someone has to be first to take the responsibility to take action to fix it. You need to seduce the CO back into the marriage. You need to court her, treat her as the special entity she is and win her love. Because if you give up and she throws you out, or you choose to leave...just remember... She keeps the house and ALL the assets that she wants.

 

Over the years as a youth and adult I have been in 10 scout units, every one had a wonderful relationship with their charter organization, none better than the current unit I serve. Only one began that way, but through a conscious effort on the part of the unit leaders great unit/CO relationships were quickly developed.

 

But complaining about them never made it better.