When is it apropriate...

[EO2(SCW)Ploense]

for an adult leader to use profanity at a scout? If one adult leader appears to be loosing his composure with a scout and uses vulgar language what should another adult leader do? What is BSA policy?

 

regards,

Carl

[FireKat]

In my book.... NEVER!!!

As to policies others can expound on those.

An adult is an example and should never degrade others in such a way. I can over look an accidental use of language whan a finger gets smashed by a hammer or such. But never towards another. That is one of the few times I will fuss at another adult in front of the kids and expect the adult to apologize for the language.

I really want to hear how others handle the situation.   Kat

[Beavah]

Ya, EO2, yeh seem pretty worked up about adult leaders in your son's troop, eh?

 

Can I ask what's really going on?

 

No matter how justified yeh might be, goin' online to try to "build up evidence" so that yeh can go after volunteers in your unit because yeh disagree with their approach almost never ends well for anybody.

 

Might I suggest instead that you invite the adult leader out for a cup of coffee and politely express your concerns? And then, after that, if yeh feel your concerns have not been met, have the same sort of chat with the troop Committee Chair. You don't need a "policy" to give friendly feedback, you just need to be a concerned parent.

 

Of course, naturally anyone bringin' criticism should also be prepared to be asked to serve as a volunteer, eh?

 

 

In answer to your question, there's no BSA policy beyond our common understanding of the Scout Oath and Law, and the BSA's belief in "constructive discipline." The troop's Chartered Organization may have different expectations, particularly with respect to its youth leaders taking the Lord's name in vain. And naturally, there's verbal stuff that's "over the top" and can amount to abuse or assault, but I don't get that to be quite what you're talkin' about. Sounds more like a tired and grumpy character (and perhaps a particularly rebellious teen?)

 

Ultimately, I reckon few of us here care much for the chronic "shouters." My personal preference is that adult leaders only raise their voice when they have to shout to somebody during a storm!

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Bob White]

I would excuse the scout from the situation rather than try and coax the adult away.

 

For instance I would ask the scout or scouts to go assist cleaning the Quartermaster in order for the other adult and I to discuss an upcoming event.

 

Once out of range I would ask the adult if he was feeling alright. If he wasn't I would suggest that it is showing in behavior that I would not expect of him, and suggest he go somelace where he could relax and we could talk later.

 

If he insisted he was fine then I would tell him that his language with the scout was unacceptable and ask if he felt he had cause for such behaviour. I would explain to him that profanity toward a youth was a form of verbal abuse and was unnacceptable in the BSA program. I would suggest he consider apologizing to the scout(s), and I would explain to him that if this becomes a problem again that it will need to be addressed by the troop committee.

 

I would finish by telling him I thought he was a better individual than to use language like that especially toward a child, and I would be surprised and seriously concerned if it were to happen again.

 

The adults response would determine if this remained a private counseling session of if I needed to take it to the unit committee for their action.

 

BW

[Gold Winger]

I'd like to know how vulgar and how profane and how much.

 

If he says, "****" I'm not going to worry much about it.

 

If he says, "***" We would need to have a discussion. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

[Stosh]

Never.

 

Plain and simple. I cannot think of any instance where this would be even remotely acceptable.

 

I would include that to mean to use profanity at anyone, not just a scout.

 

Stosh

[Gold Winger]

Thanks to the moderator, my example makes no sense at all.

 

 

**** was an admonition to get movin and *** was an angry diatribe.

[packsaddle]

I've only observed this a couple of times and only once in this unit. "Never" is my answer as well. The boys will sometimes test one's composure but a leader loses both position and control if he starts shouting or using profanity. The boys know this, too.

[dan]

That leader may think cussing is acceptable, may have been the where and how he was raised. You may think it is wrong, but thinking that it is wrong does not make it wrong. Seems like everyone is trying to push there morals on to other people, that is wrong, worse than cussing!

[Bob White]

Dan??

Please let me know if I misunderstood your post.

"Seems like everyone is trying to push their morals on to other people, that is wrong, worse than cussing!"

 

Are you suggesting that to require a Scoutleader to be 'Clean' is WORSE than his cussing?

 

How is that possible?

If a community requires that you not speed is that worse than the speeding?

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, I can't speak for dan, eh?

 

But my guess is that he and GW were makin' the same point.

 

Folks who live in white-collar and strongly religious communities may have a very strong aversion to incidental use of 4-letter words. Some are even a bit "prissy," misinterpreting common kid slang like "that sucks" as being profanity. I think it's fair to say that there are other communities where incidental or informal use of some 4-letter words is more common and acceptable, and that some 4-letter words that a few think are vulgar really aren't when used in a different context.

 

As GoldWinger was sayin' politely and properly, and reasonably carefully (before a moderator from the aforementioned first community ran amok ), a lot depends on da context. Some things most of us would just shrug off. Other things I reckon I at least would be even more aggressive than Bob at pullin' a leader aside.

 

EO2 has expressed some really strong feelings toward some of the adult leaders in his troop in other messages, though, eh? I'm wonderin' how much of this is part of a bigger picture...

 

B

 

[FScouter]

This has nothing to do with morals. A Scout is courteous. Some people may not be offended by the use of profanity or vulgarity in their presence, but some will be offended. Its not much different than taking a bath once a week even if you dont think you need it; you do it so as to not be offensive to others. Sure, you can exercise your right to be vulgar and to stink, but why would anyone choose to push that nastiness on others?

[Lisabob]

Speaking as a parent: If a leader in my son's troop were to use foul language directed at my son, I would expect an apology to me and to my son, at the very least. I would also expect that the CC or COR or IH (depending on how involved the CO is) would consider discussing the matter in private with the adult and making very clear that this is not tolerated. If it happened more than once either my son would be in another troop or I'd expect that leader to step down/be removed. There is never a good enough reason for an adult to swear at a youth and this is not the example I want my child to follow.

 

(That said, I understand views on some types of language differ - but the "basic" swears, I think, are really not in contention among most people.)

[Eagledad]

>>Folks who live in white-collar and strongly religious communities may have a very strong aversion to incidental use of 4-letter words.>This has nothing to do with morals

[EO2(SCW)Ploense]

BLUF = Bottom Line Up Front,

 

I am really getting things off my chest that I should have in the past. I am not amassing evidence. The implosion at my son's old troop is a self inflicted wound that is punishment enough. In a short period they went from 30 in regular attendance, to six sometimers. The boys expressed their displeasure with their feet. I hope the good people who still have any affiliation with the troop resurect it. They are good boys and deserve better.

 

I think I said it before. I was hoping to hear what I am hearing. Scouting has not lost its way. Good men like yourselves still call wrong, wrong and do what is right.

 

I have been education and administration over a dozen years. I have dealt with all types of kids. I have never found it acceptable to use vulgar language in front of boys (under 18). As one time drill instructor I must admit to frequently using foul language. Different time and place.

 

It is because of the comments here I plan on staying with scouting. Right now I work with the Cubs. They are a lot more fun and a world of less politics.

 

The reality of my situation was that the CC, COR, SM and several ASMs formed a little clique. They did a lot of covering for each other. The first time I heard swearing it was no little accident. One of our life scouts was upset about seing the patrol structure change. He became emotional. Before he could get started the CC started shouting and used a few choice words to get the point across that he wasn't going to take that from any kid. The COR was sitting right there. The boy's mom was on the phone with the COR later that evening. The boy's father couldn't do anything because he had passed away from cancer months before. The boy who should have made Eagle quit. He was the first of many over the years. Everything at that troop was kept at the lowest level.

 

It is a shame that a few adults for whatever reasons cannot put personal agendas aside and reap the reward of mentoring boys to become men. Passing on the art of leadership.

 

As for me...I'd like to stay with the program despite the bumps and hiccups. Although I don't want anything to do with petty politics. I would like to some day pass on my military skills such as First Aid, Camping, Hiking, Orienteering, Rifle shooting skills.

 

Any suggestions on how to accomplish that? Do I need to find a Scout troop?

 

regards,

Carl