For Love of Pot Roast

[Bob White]

I learned how to cook from a number of different places. The first was at home from my mother. She showed my brothers and I a recipe book and said that if you follow a recipe for pound cake and do it correctly you will end up with a pound cake every time. Thats what recipes do, they provide specific ingredients and specific procedures to yield a consistent result.

 

Flexibility; many recipes allow a degree of flexibility where the individual cook can make minor alterations to personalize the dish. But flexibility has its limits, change too much or change main ingredients and it is no longer the same dish, alter certain ingredients and you will ruin the taste. Use the wrong procedure and it will be unrecognizable.

 

I like Pot Roast. I know lots of pot roast recipes and they all have a slightly different taste, yet they are all instantly recognizable as pot roast. I can make pot roast for a small group of people or a large group of people and it is always recognizable as a pot roast.

 

Now lets say that a hundred of us volunteered to make pot roast for a big event. When we showed up we would have a huge variety of pot roasts yet they should all be easily recognizable as the same dish, a pot roast.

 

Butwhat if someone brought a raw hamburger to the pot roast party? Wait a minute you sayraw hamburger is easily recognizable as not being a pot roast! "WHAT?", exclaims the individual, how can you say that, they are in fact the same thing. Your pot roast is made of beef, he says. My hamburger is made of beef, they are the same thing. Do you know what YOUR problem is? says the hamburger bringeryou arent FLEXIBLE!.

 

But as cooks we know the truth, it has nothing to do with flexibility, it has to do with knowing what a pot roast is and being able to see a hamburger and know they are not the same. Not there is anything wrong with hamburger, but when you volunteered to come to the event you agreed to make a pot roast, and you did not keep your promise.

 

There are posters who have perpetrated a hoax on many members of this forum by saying that some posters are not flexible in how the scouting program is delivered. When in fact the problem is that they brought hamburger to the event. Scouting has specific ingredients and specific procedures that yield a consistent product. This recipe allows for flexibility, but if you alter main ingredients or change the procedures too much the result will not be the product you agreed to make when you volunteered to deliver the program.

 

When people who know the program say thats not scouting it's because the difference between scouting and not-scouting is as easily recognizable as the difference between pot roast and a hamburger.

You can expect the hamburger folks to stick together and argue for they similar but different product. Of course its scouting they will say, "we dress like scouts, so it must be the same thing". Or sure its scouting we went to the training and wear a trained strip". Looking at a recipe and following a recipe are not the same thing!

 

Do I preach, perhaps I do. Where is the problem in that. A preacher spreads the word of God he does not claim to be God. He says this is what the good book reveals to us and if you believe and follow it there are rewards for you at the end. I have never claimed to be the be all end all of scouting, that is claim used by others to ridicule me. All I have said is this is the recipe given to us by the BSA and its a good program that works IF you follow it. There is no harm in that message for anyone.

 

As a trainer and commissioner for many years, as well as a unit leader for 30 years, I am enthusiastic for what I know a real scouting program offers. I and a handful of others on this forum have said "this is what the program says, and if you follow the recipe there are rewards for everyone at the end". Not everyone likes that message, largely because they have either been mislead by others to believe that we think the program should not be fun, or that we are inflexibl. The real problem is we know hamburger when we see it.

 

Our message is about Pot Roast, and folks that only bring raw hamburger are not going to like it. If anyone interested in learning how to cook pot roast I can recommend some resources where you can learn the basic recipe and then make SLIGHT alterations to fit your personal taste and the taste of those you serve it to.

 

I also recommend the cooking lessons offered by OGE, Eamonn, Fscouter, and a few others. If you dont know the difference between hamburger and pot roast, and you have no interest in learning the recipe, then perhaps cooking is not calling.

 

But please, stop listening to this silliness about scouting not being fun, or that I or other program supporters are 'zealots', or that we are 'inflexible'. These are weak and sad distortions of the truth, and I am hopeful that at some point these poster will tire of misrepresentations and try and justify their opinions without misrepresenting mine.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this. (Itried to remain shorter than Eamonns posts )

 

BW

 

[Venividi]

There once was a man that loved pot roast. He grew up eating pot roast. His mother made it often. The pot roast that his mother made was POT ROAST. There was no other. It was the recipe that she served in her restaurant. The man learned the recipe and followed that particular recipe every time he made it. When he went out into the world, he found that not everyone loved his pot roast. People that lived in the mile high city found that their conditions required cooking the roast at a different temperature and different length of time, or the pot roast came out under cooked. They suggested a modification that they had tried that turned out better for them. The man was outraged. He told them that they should be shamed for not following his mothers recipe. He rudely preached that there was no other way than his mothers recipe that was acceptable. Sure, he would allow for SLIGHT alterations in his mothers recipe, and he declared himself to be the abritrator of what was an acceptable alteration and what was not. There was no room for differences that he, in his own judgement, decided went beyond his definition of slight. He would not diplomatically try to help others to learn how his mothers recipe was good, but rather, would attempt to make them feel shamed for not knowing that his mothers recipe, and that it was the best.

 

A young man came across the forum where pot roast recipes were being discussed. He had tried on several occasions to make pot roast, and was improving, but still not satisfied with his efforts. He was trying to learn more. He read the forum, and saw others chastised for not making a perfect pot roast according to the mans mother's recipe. He decided that it was not worth getting criticized, and decided to make beef stew instead, and went away, never to return.

 

And then after a number of years, a funny thing happened. On a visit home, his mother made him a pot roast. And it tasted different. Not bad, mind you, but different. He asked his mother about it. His mother responded that she had done some market research and found that, to better serve her customers, she had to make some major changes to the recipe. What was he to do? His mothers pot roast was now different. So he did what he felt he must - he went back to the forum and preached on how the new pot roast recipe was the only proper pot roast recipe. He spoke in condesending tones to anyone that suggested that the old pot roast recipe was any good at all. And life was good.

[Gold Winger]

Clap . . . . . clap . . . . . clap . . .clap . . . clap . . clap . . clap . clap, clap, clap, clap, clappppppppppp.

[Bob White]

You will not find a single post from me where someone who wanted to learn about the Scouting program or needed an answer to a question was not treated with courtesy and given not only the answer but the information on where to find the answer and learn more about the BSA program.

 

Veninividi why do you continue fabricating things that simply are not true?

[Gold Winger]

Bob, who's talking about BSA? VeniVidi told a story about pot roast and now you're trying to make it about you and the Boy Scouts. Sounds like either paranoia or an exceptionally large ego.

[Bob White]

Again with personal attacks.

[FireKat]

Why dont we just talk about pot roast, not a fish fry?  

What spices we might try. What has not tasted so good.  Without arguing if our tastes are a bit different or going off on a discussion of frying oils.

[Gold Winger]

Personal attack? You're the one who thinks that a story about pot roast is about you. Nowhere in that story are the words "Bob" or "White." What would you call your response?

[Its Me]

 

 

Yes we need more threads about Bob White. Even though almost all threads turn into "Bob White" threads, it just isn't enough. Maybe the moderators can start a new Form the "All About Bob" forum.

 

Bob White, look at your record since you have returned. In the who is the SPL in charge of, thread it turned into a "this is about Bob white and what he said" thread. In the first class first year, thread the same thing occurred. The school or not a school thread again turned into an all about Bob White and what he said or didn't say.

 

Yea you are the victim, the victim of your own need for attention and to be hailed as the superior scouter to all.

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Or to put another ending to the story:

 

The pot roast forum dissolved into a bunch of endless, meaningless arguments about whether or not people who make pot roast in one way or another are liars, or are not people of character, and a host of other insults tossed around. Several former posters who just wanted to have a free exchange of ideas without getting into character assassination at every turn left the forum in disgust. And then one day a couple of the posters' moms, who hadn't made pot roast in years and felt a sudden hankering for the dish, went to the site to remind themselves how it is done. They recognized their children's writings and were appalled. When their grown children showed up at the house for a big family dinner that night, all the moms fed them a bit of humble pie instead of pot roast at all and told them to knock it off.

 

One of the surprising revelations of adulthood for me, back when I officially became a member of that club, was that a lot of adults behave worse than a lot of children. The difference? Mom (or Dad, or whoever raised them) isn't there to tell them to CUT IT OUT. I am not singling out any particular individual as I find that there's plenty of this to go around in the adult world, both online and in real life. It's just an observation - you decide for yourself if it fits.

 

Now, can we please all go back to being Scouts and Scouters? Friendly, Courteous, and Kind and all that stuff?

 

 

[Lisabob]

Or to take this in another direction: I really do like pot roast! And in seriousness, I think the only pot roast I have ever made is Mom's. So how about posting a couple of real pot roast recipes? I don't have dinner plans yet for tomorrow, going grocery shopping later today, how about it?

 

 

[evmori]

I love pot roast! Got a great recipe for a slow cooker or Dutch oven pot roast with potatoes & carrots!

 

Man am I hungry after reading all the guff posted! Good insight Its Me! And an accurate description of the posts started.

 

What does pot roast have to do with Scouting being fun?

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Hiromi]

Hey everybody, and especially Bobwhite,

 

Its me, Pappy.

 

If you guys want to beat somebody up - you are always invited to come over to my thread - "All Things Pappy". I have a Pot Roast of my own on, along with a lot of offensive smelly chilies, goulashes, and mystery stews- Heck, you can even bring fire-works and long sheath knives along for all I care. We throw nasty unnatural things in my fire that make pretty colorful flames and awesome sounds and terrible smells. We don't practice "Leave no trace" but "Slash, burn, and build!". So come and leave your trace.

 

And I swear my best Scout's Honor on a stack of Roman Catholic Bibles (Who am I kidding- it was the Catholic's who wrote the Bible in the first place!) - that I will not take anything anybody says as personally offensive. Unless of course Eamonn shows up and says that he's a Boy Scout and I'm not. Just kidding Eamonn. I would be proud to have you serve as my moderator Man.

 

Bob, you wrote about yourself: "You will not find a single post from me".... (On this site? - over the past two weeks , eh?- my addition) ..."where someone who wanted to learn about the Scouting program or needed an answer to a question was not treated with courtesy and given not only the answer but the information on where to find the answer and learn more about the BSA program."

 

Well Bob, Memory is a **** - even when threads are disappeared whole-sale- people remember. And I will even bury my virtual scout hatchet with you and say for the sake of mutual respect and understanding and courtesy and friendliness that you really mean it this time, and won't call up some mystery guy at my Council headquarters who's go the dirt on me and declare "The Jig is Up.".

 

Please don't take this as a personal attack Bob. It's just a friendly heads up that I've got your number because you so freely gave it out.

 

 

Pappy

 

(This message has been edited by Pappy)

[Stosh]

For those who think Scouting is any different than any other organization when it comes to these kinds of discussions, think again.

 

For the past 9 years I have been in the world of reenacting and have a crew that is part of that world. There are those who are extreme reenactors and these people attempt to be perfectly historic. They are sometimes referred to as Mudsills or Stitch-counters. They emerse themselves in the event to the point where they do not interact with the crowds and even have events where they live in a historical setting with no one else around.

 

Then there are the Progressives. Those that try to be very authentic and keep progressing towards a better historical impression. My boys in the crew fit into this group.

 

At the "bottom" of the heap are the FARBS (Far be it from authentic) These people like to KOA camp with a historical theme for the weekend.

 

But wait, there's more! Now here's where I want to make sure no one assumes that I'm addressing anyone on this forum, but the reenactors who have done their research through Hollywood movies and show up with their cell phones are called "BOB" (Better off Bowling). These people are the lepers of the hobby.

 

One can say all they want about these different levels of authenticity in the reenacting hobby, but at an event, guess which group draws the biggest spectator crowds!!!

 

No matter how good the pot roast may be, the kids will always choose Micky D's!

 

Stosh

[Bob White]

And yet Gold Wing all the posts about "Bob White said" are for the most part not things I said at all.

 

Many of the things I supposedly said were fabricated by the poster to misrepresent me, I have even given specific instances of that. I think our exchanges could be much more pleasant if a few posters could be more honest in representing the content of my posts.

 

The story was to explain to folks that the image being generated by a few posters that I do not think there is flexibility in the program is hog wash. There is a lot of flexibility, but only to a point, if you change too much or remove or change certain elements then it is no longer scouting, I am sorry if that was not clear.