Patrol vs Crew (vs Team)

[Oak Tree]

In the parent thread I described a Venturing Crew that operated as a subset of a troop. ScoutNut responded that this sounds more like a Venture patrol than a Venturing Crew, and that in his experience, was typically unsuccessful ("short shelf life").

 

Now, I can see how this crew wouldn't have as much identity as a stand-alone crew, but I'm not sure I see why it would be any less successful than a typical Venture patrol. What experiences does anyone else have?

 

I know some units around here that have had their crews for a long time, associated with a troop. In fact, our district's biggest crew, I believe, is quite active but is entirely a subset of a troop.

 

I also have talked with people who used a Varsity team for this purpose. I knew one CO that had all three units (troop, team, and crew), and had their boys triply registered.

 

It seems to me that this crew or team that is a "Venture patrol on steroids" would have a few advantages over an ordinary Venture patrol. Primarily it would have more of a distinct identity.

 

But I'm curious as to what other experiences are out there.

 

P.S. Requested thread rule - you don't need to tell me what the BSA literature says. I already know that. There's a good overview of the basic differences here: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/docs/VVVtable.asp

[Beavah]

Yah, OakTree, I've seen what you're talkin' about, where a Boy Scout troop essentially charters its older boy high adventure program as a Venturing Crew. Sometimes they stay all boys, sometimes not. Often they have some sort of dual-registration or dual-involvement expectation.

 

Here's da advantages I see:

 

1) Venturing is more age-appropriate for older boys, and has a lot more support materials and programming than do Venture Patrols within a troop. Fact is, we're pretty much phasing out Venture Patrols, eh? Ranger Award in particular can be a good fit for this type of crew. A few things, like hunting, are only allowed in Venturing.

 

2) Venturing opportunities also make great Junior Leader Training programs for older scouts, who then can bring back those skills to the troop. In fact, there's quite a bit of "teach others" expectations in Venturing recognitions.

 

Same for adults, eh? Venturing training is much better tailored to the needs of high-school-aged youth and high adventure programming than any of the Boy Scouting training.

 

3) Venturing gives CO's a way to deal with the oddity of having an 18-year-old "adult" suddenly separated from his 17-year-old same-grade "youth" peers. You don't have to make an 18-year-old lad an ASM or throw him out, and yeh don't have to get into separate tent nonsense and all that.

 

4) For youth who Eagled early, it provides a new set of challenges. Alternately, it provides a unit where there isn't any "advancement" or "uniforming" adult pressure, so kids who are becoming turned off by that can find a home.

 

5) The crews tend to be fairly long-lived, because there's a steady supply of new blood coming up through the troop. One of the hard things about independent crews is that they often don't manage "continual recruiting" well, and fade out when the initial group ages out.

 

6) Because the crews are mostly drawing from a "known" program, they tend to have relatively "high" high adventures. There's not as much need for a crew to spend time on basic skills for new members.

 

7) There's a real incentive for boys to stay active in the troop, because the crew looks even more fun and exciting and cool. They look forward to it.

 

8) Your district and council folks will love yeh for adding a unit.

 

Downsides

 

1) These crews really never develop the same feel or character as independent crews do, and don't become as involved in district or council Venturing activities.

 

2) Often the crew relies on Boy Scout adult leadership, and Boy Scouting adults sometimes don't "get" what works for high schoolers. You have to find some young lads and lasses who work well with the high school age group, and be careful about usin' da parents who came up as Den Leaders then ASMs.

 

3) Da crew members can become a bit "elitist" within the troop if yeh don't keep an eye out.

 

4) When they're coed, they tend to draw sisters of boy scouts and their friends. That's not so bad, but has to be watched for bad dynamic. They also can draw girlfriends. That has to be watched much more closely

 

That what you're lookin' for? Feel free to ask more questions.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

 

 

[Stosh]

It would be interesting to actually know the BSA policy on dual registered youth and the 18-21 age period of the crew. On a troop level 19 year olds cannot tent with under 18 year olds. But they can with a crew. But if they're dual registered are there some issues that haven't been identified? It would also be interesting to know how these crew deal with an ASM of the troop being a dual registered member of the crew? It really brings to mind a real problem with GTSS issues.

 

Stosh

 

[Lisabob]

As I mentioned in the venturing forum, our district is looking to start several new crews this year. At least two will probably be along the lines of what Oak Tree is describing, although one of those is likely to be a joint effort between a couple of troops so as to avoid being seen as "territorial." (None the less, the CO and Crew # will be the same as one of the troops in town.)

 

For the most part I'd agree with Beavah's list of pros and cons, except for the bit about longevity. I've been involved on and off with district membership for a few years now and what I've noticed is that these sorts of crews last only as long as the founding group of kids/parents are still involved. Once those original youth go off to school and/or age out, the crew folds because they are not really very good at recruiting others. This is as true on the adult advisor side as the youth member side. According to our DE, this is a problem with crews in general though, regardless of their provenance, and the solution seems to be to expect to start up new crews every few years. (Not sure I'm thrilled by that prospect but then, maybe the life cycle of a crew doesn't need to be the same as with troops and packs)

[John-in-KC]

Lots to chew on here.

 

One issue of Venturing is BRANDING. BSA's "program brand" is the outdoors. Our ability to market youth support of the arts to the arts communities, youth support of faith to faith communities... to name two, isn't as strong as I'd like it to be.

 

Another issue we have is the loss of ability to charter to public schools. I'd love to have Venturing be the vehicle under which our Band Executive Council learns leadership... but the band itself is a curricular activity of a public school district, and the boosters are NOT a separate corporation, in fact they are an authorized adult activity of the school district.

 

jblake hits a good point: A troop and crew combined can have up to 6 separate housing areas... males 14-18, 18-21, and 21 up, and ditto females... when they are working with a Troop, and they are co-ed.

 

To me, bluntly, one of the best things of Venturing is it allows new relationships between youth as they discover their interests and are finally ready to explore them in great detail.

[Eagledad]

>>For the most part I'd agree with Beavah's list of pros and cons, except for the bit about longevity.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think there might be some differences in what we're talkin' about, eh?

 

There are Venturing Crews that get spun off from a troop. Often add sisters of troop members, etc. Run as a separate unit. I agree with everybody, those do a poor job of recruitin' and tend to die out. Can't figure out why.

 

I think OakTree is suggesting using a Venturing Crew in place of a Venture Patrol in a more tightly-integrated program. My experience is that these have some persistence and can be valuable to a troop. It may not be much different than the original Venture Patrol program - except that it gets you more program resources, better training, flexible uniforming, age-appropriate recognitions, etc. If it stays tightly integrated, yeh get new boys every year moving up into the (within-troop?) Venturing program.

 

B

 

[Hunt]

One small advantage of having a Crew affiliated with a Troop is that both can get in the lottery for High Adventure locations.