Self-chartering

[RememberSchiff]

I am interested in feedback from units that self-charter. In particular, info and comments about the following:

unit type

your reasons for self-chartering

how long have you been self-chartered

changes in your scout program and membership

size and membership of your unit committee

your council's assistance

relationship with sponsor

advantages/disadvantages

...whatever useful information that you could share would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[raisinemright]

Our pack and troop are both self chartered.

 

Reason-We are a pack and troop that are made up of home schooled kids who have no other affinity such as a same church, school etc. Since our kids are made up of several Christian denominations, we didn't want to be hooked to any particular church.

 

Long-Pack will celebrate it's tenth year in September. Troop is 3 years old

 

Changes-Not sure what you mean

 

Size of Committee-Pack has never really had an active committee although we're actively trying to change that. Leaders and any interested parents plan the program. Troop committee is also getting more formalize as our troop has hit a good size. We are geographically diverse with about a 50 mile radius to the extremes so getting together for meetings can be a challenge.

 

Council-Very very good. They are supportive and have referred a few scouts to us who called and mentioned that their kids are home schooled.

 

Sponsor?

 

Adv/Dis-Hard to say. We've never had a CO, so we don't know any different. From reading some posts, most CO's are non-existant anyway. Fundraising for the troop is a challenge since we're all paying our own way and the vast majority of us are single income families with lots of kids. Also a meeting location is hard to get although we think we've found a good one for now.

 

Beyond that, all is pretty good. Typical squabbles and minor personality conflicts but nothing critical or fatal. In all, as long as there is strong, engaged leaders and good families involved, it works well.

 

pm me if you'd like to discuss anymore

[eisely]

I don't know how a unit can operate without a chartered partner of some kind. The one situation of which I am personally aware several years ago involved a group of adults that wanted to organize a troop heavily oriented to bicycling. They created a non profit corporation, qualified with the IRS for tax purposes, and got a charter from the council. Not too difficult to do. One does need some legal assistance to do this.

 

Raisinemright,

 

Are you sure there is no chartered organization? I would be highly surprised if that were so.

[raisinemright]

Officially we are chartered under Friends of ###. We are a registered organization but it's made up of solely the families.

[Beavah]

Yah, eisley, this self-charter option as "the parents of Troop 1234" or "the friends of Pack 9876" is something you'll see in many councils. It hit its high-water mark after da Dale case fallout as cub packs and troops in some areas got evicted by their former CO's.

 

It's far from ideal, IMO, and not encouraged by da BSA. As BobWhite has described, real CO's tend to provide long-term vision and stability, stable meeting place, etc. as well as a real legal structure.

 

"Friends of Troop XXX" is typically an unincorporated association, and how those are treated varies quite a bit by state (if they're recognized at all). Not really a problem on a daily basis, unless it becomes a problem.

 

Beavah

[Eamonn]

I was really pleased to read what raisinemright posted.

Nearly all the units that have been chartered by "The Friends of ???" in our Council don't seem to last very long.

Once the group that starts the unit move on the unit tends to fold.

Most often, but not always these groups form when they are unhappy with a unit they have been in.

From what I have seen they do seem happy to follow the program.

For the first few years the group is very tight knit, but at times is not really open or welcoming to new adult members or outsiders.

The Council and District have never seemed to treat these units any differently than any other unit.

From what I have seen at times these units seem to be more about activities and as the boy's are sons of the CO, do tend not to have strong committees.

I know this is not going to sound good! But things start to go wrong when the initial enthusiasm's fade and friendships are tested. In part because everyone is a little too close. (If you get my meaning?)

We do have in the District a Pack and a Troop who has a funeral home as it's CO - They have been around for a very long time. Like most units they have had peaks and valleys.

They are out in the sticks! I'm not sure if that comes into play or not?

Ea.

 

[eisely]

Having a funeral home as a chartered organization certainly would have some advantages. First of all you don't have to worry about the business drying up.

[Eamonn]

Yes, but it did cross my mind that the Patrol Boxes looked a little odd!

Ea

[local1400]

Not all Friends of Troop X CO's are destined for failure. The troop of my youth has been chartered so continuously since 1933, with two prior CO's in the previous 21 years of organizational nature.

[Stosh]

My crew which has been operational for 9 years has a CO that is a non-legal entity (it is not a non-profit organization, it has no legal status), just a group of like-minded people with a common goal. Right now I serve as the Executive Officer of the CO and Advisor of the crew. The former Executive Officer is the CC, etc. It works for us.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

I would be units charted by "The Friends of XXXX" are a more involved CO than most traditional CO's.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[FScouter]

"Self-chartered" units essentialy have no chartered org. It's a paperwork manipulation where the unit committee assumes the role of CO as well.

[Bob White]

"My crew which has been operational for 9 years has a CO that is a non-legal entity (it is not a non-profit organization, it has no legal status),"

 

Then get thee to a lawyer and an accountant. Any income or assets of the "unit" are likely considered as personal income for which a person or persons now owe income tax. (plus back taxes and penalties over the past nine years)

 

Not to mention the personal liability issues you have exposed yourselves to.

 

Not formiing a corporation was a VERY bad idea.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[eisely]

This topic of what it takes to be a chartered organization has come up before. I always assumed that the chartered organization had to be some kind of identifiable "legal personality" if that is the correct term. I don't know how one opens up a unit bank account or acquires property for a unit without some kind of legal entity.

 

What BW is hinting at is the all too common practice of putting some individual's social security number on the unit bank account just to keep the bank happy (and comply with the law). Bad idea. Very very bad idea.

[Stosh]

Not to worry Bob, we have two lawyers in the group and we play the game according to Hoyle. The Venturing Crew is a BSA organization and has a tax exempt status. The CO owns nothing and the crew owns nothing and all the money taken in by both the CO and Crew is given away to philenthropic efforts. Gifts given to the CO group cannot be taken off their taxes, but gifts to the Crew can.

 

Stosh