Not Doing the Scouting Program, and courtesy

[Eagledad]

>> I know to what Beavah is referring... its the underlying attitude in some posters responses that the person is wrong or should be ashamed, or should leave scouting or his/her current leadership position.

[CalicoPenn]

Though I certainly agree with the thought behind the plea, I can't make the pledge because I know that there will be times when I can't follow it. Since a Scout is Trustworthy, it would seem to me that making a pledge I'm unlikely to keep would not be trustworthy.

 

While most of the time use of encouragement to try things the BSA way is appropriate, there are times when we may need to be far more aggressive in our approach - and I think most who have read any of my posts know that I believe those times are when someone needs to come to the defense of the Scouts. I refer to challenging those martinets that use their adult leadership positions to hold down a Scout instead of lifting them up, who make up obscure rules of their own for rank advancement - or who nitpick a rule instead of following the spirit of the rule when flexibility is called for. I know I have come fiercely to the defense of Scouts on this forum, to the point of calling for so-called leaders to resign and stay home, and I think (and hope) that I've only been that fierce when defending Scouts - and I suspect I may do so a few more times as the days go by.

 

Calico

 

 

[Oak Tree]

I'll take the pledge. I'm always disappointed when the experienced forum members drive off new posters by blaming them for not doing Scouting correctly.

 

Sure, there might be times when people go off the reservation. But as long as BSA charters them, they are in fact "doing Scouting", and I trust that most everyone who takes the time to post really does have good intentions.

[Gold Winger]

" But as long as BSA charters them, they are in fact "doing Scouting","

 

That's like saying if I pay my fees to Little League but my team never picks up a baseball or bat and instead spends their time knitting, that they are "playing baseball".

[Oak Tree]

Here's the difference, at least in my mind.

 

If a group signs up to play baseball, but only knits, and doesn't actually show up for games, the league will actually disband them, because there are certain expectations. The league probably won't let them play if they don't show up in uniform. If the BSA actually disbanded units that didn't wear full uniforms to summer camp, then yes, I'd agree that full uniforms are an essential part of Scouting (or pick whatever program topic you want - uniforming is just a handy example).

 

Now sure, if you never actually do anything, then I guess I might agree with you that merely being chartered isn't enough to really say that you're 'doing Scouting'. But you are certainly officially a Scout.

 

I've seen Venturing crews that appear to use virtually no aspect of the BSA program. But they're doing Venturing because it's so flexible. I'm just not sure I see the need to be so rigid with the Boy Scout side.

 

And yes, if we're talking about really egregious examples, then fine. But most posters here aren't talking about having a knitting club and calling it Scouting.

[John-in-KC]

Lord Knows I am not without sin!!

 

When you look at Ed, Bob, CA, OGE, Beavah, Lisa, kb6jra, Gold Winger, Eamonn, Calico, LH, Trev, CNY, Acco, emb, Gern, heck even Merlyn, we're not talking about a bunch of yay-who's who just signed an adult leader app. We have Commish, RT staff, District Committee, Council, Regional National and direct contact leader experience. Some of us can pick up the phone and ask a question of a Professional friend in Irving. Certainly several of us email offlist. Some have had the friendship move from online to on-site

 

Some of our discussions are full of arcane knowledge, and perhaps some Indian Lore to boot.

 

B, I'll do my best, but I won't pledge. It's too bloody hard way to often to get a feel for the situation from a few paragraphs. Remember the Rasmussens? We invested a fair bit of energy sharing what we thought from our limited knowledge base. Then we got a name and a case, and thanks to your access, we found there were deeper challenges.

 

I know, certainly for me, that I need to look at what I write "one more time" before I hit that "submit your message" key.

 

YIS, John

 

ETA: Apologies to any Scouter friend who I didn't mention in that laundry list... like FScouter and eisely... My mind isn't what it once was...(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Stosh]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe one of the Scout Laws is: "A Scout is Courteous."

[dScouter15]

As I see it, we all need to do our best to be courteous. I personally feel that those familiar with BSA policies have a responsibility to, in the course of our discussions online, point of where a scouter may have deviated from these policies. That said, can we all avoid making snotty comments like, "are you sure you've been trained?", "you're not obedient to the BSA!" and so on? Think about it: if you had trained a scout in your unit to perform some function, and you observe that he's not performing it exactly to the specifications you've set, are you going to question his obedience? Or, are you going to attempt to work with the scout to identify the reasons behind him not complying with his training, and work on correcting the problem?

[gwd-scouter]

lip quivering, sniffle, sniffle....John, you didn't mention me.....sniffle, going off to pout.

[eisely]

I think that the lack of simple courtesy is the issue. The idea of the forum is to both offer and receive advice. The difficulty with online forums like this is that people are often much more vehement than they need to be, particularly when we are trying to help one another. One can offer frank opinions, facts, and advice without coming across as putting down someone else.

[SSScout]

"Scouting is like a box of chocolates... You never know just what you'll git."

 

Units/leaders that 'alledgedly' don't follow the 'official' BSA program: The poor DE is judged by how the number of Scouts and Units rises and falls in his District. Will he be quick to reccommend the Charter or membership be pulled? On the other hand, we have the poor case of Chicago Area Council and it's camps. Do the LDS folks follow ALL of the "program" or just what they need?

 

The BSA program is what one sees it as being. Is it the 'Handbook' or the 'Fieldbook' or the raft of 'long versions' of the various 'regulations and policies' we hear quoted in these forums? Or is it something more amorphous? What was BP thinking?

 

I kind of like the idea that not all Scout units fall from the same cookie cutter. But the ideal is out there, somewhere, isn't it? I guess my ideal is the first SM that I had as a Scout. He was the sit by the campfire with his pipe sort, gently reminding us about the ideals that we should strive for. The Promise and the Law. Some of us Scouts found out that even the family we came from didn't much match those ideals, and so had to figure out which to follow, which held the greater reward. "A Scout is Loyal". Which Loyalty to cling to? I'm still figuring.

 

I am reminded of that scene in Forrest Gump, where he takes off on his cross sountry run and suddenly he finds himself followed by hundreds of people who see him as a human "grail" to be emmulated and pursued. And just as suddenly he stops, and the folks following don't know what to make of it. What to do now?

Was running the end in itself? or was there a purpose behind the running? Saw alot of beautiful scenery.......

 

As Scout Leaders we have to try and make sure that our "followers" know what to do when we stop running (both metaphorically and in reality).

 

There's a thread to spin off: Forrest Gump as erstwhile

Scout Leader,. I'll leave that to someone else.

 

YiS

[evmori]

Yup a Scout is Courteous. A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.

 

Does that mean a Scout doesn't disagree with someone? No.

Does that mean a Scout will roll over & play dead? No.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[packsaddle]

Yep gwd-scouter, I guess I'll be there with you as one of those "yay-who's who just signed an adult leader app."

Sniff.

 

Seriously, I have really thick skin. Comes from all the little circular scars all over my body....back when I was younger and girls were daring each other to touch me with a 10-foot pole.

So feel free to dump on me if you want to, it'll just roll off.

[GernBlansten]

Pack, there's a fine line between being thick skinned and being a masochist. Which is it bub?

 

GWD, I too sit as a quivering mass of jelly because I wasn't included in John's list. I take some solace in noting my inclusion in the "Most active recent contributors" box on the right from time to time. However, that could be construed as the "Get a Life Club" too!

[gwd-scouter]

Gern - stop your quivering, you were listed.