Be careful what you wish for-new Scouts joining our Troop

[Lisabob]

Maybe as part of that parent meeting you are planning to have you should consider letting all of these potential new parents know that every one of them is expected to contribute actively (ie, not just write a check) in some manner. You may not want or need all of them on all your camp outs but travel to and from campsites just got more challenging and they'll be expected to help with the driving. Record keeping just became a bigger job and you'll need more help with that. Merit Badge counseling may be more frequent now and nearly everybody has a talent or passion they could share with the boys as MBCs.

 

One of our former SMs uses this line when he is talking to webelos parents about the expectations the troop has of adults: "I can do all sorts of things for your boys (lists a few things here) but I need you to help do those things for my son too." Most of them seem to get that and sign up to do something or other.

 

And then of course you'll want to think about getting all these new adults to training so that they have at least a basis upon which you can continue to build a shared vision.

 

 

[Stosh]

What most people don't understand, especially in larger populated areas of multiple troops, is that the troop itself has a reputation amongst the scouting community. Troop A is adult-led, small, lots of activities, and plenty of gear. Troop B is boy-led, little larger, always struggling with gear, don't always get the big outings organized and ... well, you have to remember it's boy-led. Troop C is really small, they had one boy Eagle about 10 years ago, it was the SM's son. Troop D is got a hot-shot SM and it's growing leaps and bounds, but the boy's aren't advancing very quickly, the adults can't seem to handle all that growth.

 

Now, you're a Web DL and you need to visit a troop for your boys to qualify for AOL. Hmmm. You ask the parents, and they give you 4 different answers. The boys don't want to split up. So you close your eyes, draw a number out of your hat and within 2 years, all the boys that didn't want to go to the troop you picked, have quit and the 2 boys that did stay were your son and his friend.

 

There's a valid reason why out of 100 boys that join Cub Scouts 2 of them will Eagle. What's wrong with this picture?

 

Stosh

[SWScouter]

A little story about transferring scouts.

 

Backgroound:

About a year and a half ago, five scouts transferred from one troop into the troop my son and I are members of. Those five scouts had been together for a long time but there was some conflict with some leaders and there wasn't too many active scouts other than the five.

 

The troop:

Great group of scouts. Everyone seems to get along well enough and everyone respects each other and no one would ever ridicule any other scout, especially a couple scouts that are special needs and a bit "different."

 

The transfer:

New scouts keep to themselves at first. A fair bit of setting the pecking order started. There were some minor turf wars and stuff. Us adults had to keep our eyes open and nip this sort of behavior in the bud. There was some resentment from the previous scouts to the transferring scouts. The scouts were worried about the troop being ruined.

 

Now:

Transferred scouts are sometimes still referred to as the scouts that transferred but not much. They have become a major part of the troop. Everyone gets along fine and respects each other as before. There is definitely a different dynamic than before. It ended up helping the troop. One of the transferring scouts dropped out several months after the transfer.

 

I think the biggest issue was with the scouts establishing the pecking order and their own territory so to speak. That will have to happen but it's important to keep a wary eye out for stopping any ridiculing and teasing that tends to occur when that is happening. A lot of mini conferences and some SM minutes about differences, talents, strengths, helpfulness, etc can go a long way in the scouts transition.

 

Good luck,

SWScouter

[gwd-scouter]

jblake: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your post. I certainly agree that Troops tend to gain a reputation, whether accurate or not, as being boy-led, adult-led, advancement driven, etc., but I don't agree that those reputations have anything to do with their size.

[Pack378]

gwd-scouter: size is a big deal.... show up to camp and see two dozen matching tents from one unit. That leaves an impression..

Big units get respect just because of the sheer size...

[gwd-scouter]

What I meant was that the size of a Troop doesn't necessarily determine its reputation for being boy-led, adult-led, advancement driven, and so on. Didn't word it very well. I was trying to find some similarity in the Troops in my district to those described by jblake as Troop A, B, C, and D.

 

Yes, I agree that those mega troops that roll into a Camporee in a bus and establish what looks like a military encampment with four or five patrol sites each with matching tents, quonset huts, etc. certainly get noticed. Yes, parents of Webelos Scouts may see that unit as the best in the area because it is so big. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the mega troops gain respect merely because of their size though.

 

In fact, in our District, we once had a mega-troop (now down to 24 Scouts) that was most certainly not respected by other Scouters and Scouts. This was in part because, due to their numbers, their adult leadership ran the District, the adults and boys in their Troop ran the OA Chapter. Not because they were selected to do so, but because of their majority influence they pushed aside ideas of other Scouts and Scouters.

[Stosh]

"jblake: I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your post. I certainly agree that Troops tend to gain a reputation, whether accurate or not, as being boy-led, adult-led, advancement driven, etc., but I don't agree that those reputations have anything to do with their size. "

 

EXACTLY THE POINT! You fully understood my point. Size does not determine anything in regards to a troop. It can be a small troop or a mega troop and what's important is the program, not the size. Troop can be boy-led large and small and a troop can be adult-led large and small.

 

To think that we have to limit the size of a troop to maintain the quality of the BSA program is simply not a valid argument. A troop's reputation for a quality program can be maintained in a troop of any size.

 

Troops that limit their enrollment may in fact be deceiving themselves that this has anything to do with the quality of their program. Maybe if they had to increase in size and adjust to greater numbers, they might step up the effectiveness of their leadership and become even better.

 

Not every troop has to be small, medium sized or mega to be effective. But it bothers me to think that size equates to quality and thus we turn boys away from the program because we place too much false emphasis on size.

 

What exactly am I advocating? Drop the limited enrollment and take on the challenges that are set before you and at least don't use the excuse of size to tell Webelos boys they aren't welcome in your troop.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[gwd-scouter]

OK, jblake, I see what you're saying. But I think then perhaps you have misunderstood my posts. In the first post when I wrote I hoped one day that our troop would grow to 20 Scouts, I didn't mean I wanted to limit it to that. It's just that for the past few years as some of our Scouts aged out, moved, lost interest, only one or two Scouts joined. No loss, but no gain either.

 

Also, the group of Scouts that is coming to join our Troop next week is not a Den of Webelos, but rather 9-10th graders looking to transfer. I don't think anywhere in my posts I've been using or asking for excuses to turn these Scouts away. I did mention that we've been contacted by a Webelos Den that is looking to crossover next year (Feb. 2009), but I never said anything about turning them away either.

 

I think our Troop has a quality program, is getting better every year, and welcome any boy that wants to join. I do have concerns about a sudden influx of older Scouts since we've never had to deal with that before, but I'm sure our current Scouts and Leaders will handle it all just fine.

 

Life as a Scouter is never boring.

[scoutmomma]

gwd, I can't help thinking of something I was told before I became a parent: "Watch out for the paradigm shift!"

 

I didn't know what they meant at the time -- or, I should say, I thought I knew what they meant -- only to learn after my son was born that all the theoretical knowledge I had didn't equate to half of what reality had in store!

 

That said, I'm sure you'll do fine, too!

[Stosh]

gwd, I never intended to infer anything negative against a large or small troop, especially those who make every possible effort to accomdate as many boys as possible including the inevitable struggle of some of these very small troops all of a sudden doubling or tripling their membership in one or two years. I applaud their efforts. On the other hand I know of a few troops what would love to expand and I know the difficulty it is sometimes to attract boys to the program. The troop I'm in had some serious problems and couldn't attract any Webelos boys for about 3 years in a row. Their numbers dwindled and they came close to shutting it down altogether. What faced this program one day is now facing a tripling of numbers next month. Feast and famine. I don't know which of the two is more difficult to handle.

 

Just put together a good program, the boys will eventually recognize this and start showing up on the doorstep. The reason for the turn around? People heard that the program was going to change big time and it's the direction they wanted it to go.

 

Stosh

[Aquila calva]

Hi gwd-scouter,

 

So.your troop is about to inherit (absorb) another troop of 8 or 9 scouts who are in the 9th and 10th grade. The one active parent in this group has indicated a desire to give these scouts more opportunity to earn Eagle. Your troop will need several well-trained Eagle Coaches; otherwise you will find yourself being the Eagle Coach for many teenagers you dont even know yet. And these scouts will each need an Eagle project. The focus of these scouts will be to finish up those last required merit badges, put together and complete an Eagle project, and pass the Eagle Board of Review. As Scoutmaster, you could easily find yourself faced with a whole different set of demands. It won`t be just about forming new patrols or encouraging a boy-led program. Let these new parents know right away that their help is needed if these scouts will accomplish their Eagle goal. The position of Eagle Coach in a troop is very important. It can`t always be only the Scoutmaster.

 

[gwd-scouter]

Aquila, I hadn't thought of that. I don't know what rank these Scouts hold, but it is certainly possible that they all may be in their last steps toward Eagle.

 

Of course, it is likely that these Scouts will not transfer to us. Last year, a couple of Dads and their sons came to visit with the intention of transferring. I've know them since Cub Scout days. When word got out that they were thinking about leaving, their leaders held an emergency meeting of all the adults to find out what the problems were and to work them out. Their Troop Leaders promised to make changes and so they stayed. In the end, one Dad and his two boys left anyway just last month and joined another Troop (not ours) where the boys knew many of the Scouts. The other boy and his father simply quit Scouts.

 

Same thing may happen with this bunch. No doubt word has gotten out and pressure will be brought to make changes in their Troop. I would imagine our DE doesn't want to see the Troop fold, likely its CO doesn't either. Maybe they will make changes. Maybe they will get a new SM and ASMs that are committed to revitalizing the Troop. Maybe those boys will get the program they should.

 

Whatever they decide, our door is open.

 

[gwd-scouter]

Here's an update. The Troop of boys considering transferring is going to try to stay together and revive their Troop. Chartered Organization does not want to lose their Troop, although they've never offered support in the past. The other parents, one of whom is the COR, have asked the Mom who called me to step up as SM and they are going to ask the current SM to resign.

 

Mom called me to tell me about all of this and to ask for my suggestions. Oh boy that was a LONG conversation. They were all supposed to meet last night to try to work all this out but I don't know the outcome yet.

 

My biggest question to her was whether she had any ASMs in that Troop. Was anyone other than the current SM trained. Was she trained. No she said, but some of the Dads do go on campouts once in a while. Her biggest concern and the complaints from the Scouts is that their Troop never does anything. It is certainly a mess, but I wonder...if they've been so concerned (for at least a year) about not doing anything, why didn't they step up before this? Why did it have to come down to "firing" the SM? Just not a good situation.

[Lisabob]

Nothing is ever simple, is it. In a way I'm glad to hear that this is the decision they've reached. It means that the CO needs to pay better attention to the troop, it means the parents and the boys understand that THEY are "the troop" and need to take better care of it if they want to see it survive, and it may mean that you have neatly avoided some headaches in your own troop. (And from a district membership perspective, it means that the district doesn't lose a unit, which is a big bad thing.)

 

 

So now the question is, how open is your door? Knowing that this troop is struggling and recognizing that seeing it be revitalized is better than watching it die, what support can you offer them? For example, while their new crop of leaders is getting trained and figuring out what they are doing, would you consider doing a joint camp out or two? What about offering to sit down with the new leaders (youth and adult) and helping them understand your vision of what "boy led" means, doesn't mean, and how you've managed to turn around some things in your troop? How about helping the district find a really good person to serve as their Unit Commissioner (or, if they have one, an unofficial mentor)? How about offering to give the new SM a ride to the next Round Table?

 

Just some thoughts and based on your previous posts I bet you were already thinking along these lines anyway. My hat's off to you for your efforts.

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

I like what Lisa said.

 

gwd,

I would add ... if they are around at all, this is a time for the COR to specifically ask the District Commissioner for lots of help. It sounds like there are training needs from program to support for the adults of the Troop. There are opportunities from JLT to OA to be tapped into to revitalize the kids and the program.

 

I'd ask your DE/District Commish to consider visiting not just the Chartered Partner's IH/COR, but perhaps the general membership. Scouting is a contract with the community organization. They need a description of "what right looks like."

 

I'd also urgently recommend putting a couple of those existing Scouts into Den Chief PORs... and telling the kids bluntly the Troops rebuilding depends on re-filling the recruiting pipeline. It's not their fundamental responsibility, but a team effort, including an ASM coordinator to Packs and the SM recognizing the Den Chiefs may not be at as many Troop meetings because they're serving.

 

My thoughts.