Encouraging Scouts to Participate in Leadership

[hotdesk]

Troop 159's elections are coming up in Febraury. Last night the Scoutmaster and myself (Assistant Scoutmaster) discussed this with the scouts. We gave them the names of those that were eligible (based on guidelines established by the PLC). We then asked them who, out of those eligible, would be interested and then asked who would be interested period.

 

The answer that we got was that no one was interested. We have several members that were elected, based on their deservence, into the Order of the Arrow and that are also Star or Life Scouts. We have scouts that have served as ASPL, PLs, TG, and some that have pervious experience as SPL (however some of these scouts are now those that are causing behavorial issues within the troop).

 

The Scoutmaster expressed to the scouts that one of the roles of Boy Scouting is to teach leadership. I expressed my thoughts that if the job of Patrol Leader is done correctly that it was a far harder position than that of Senior Patrol Leader. Still no one was interested in serving.

 

The answer that no one is interested in serving was not a surprise to me. In our area we have several county, city, and township elections that have 1 or fewer candidates running for these positions. I have also read national reports that an attitude of "I don't care" is really sweeping the nation and causing problems.

 

However, how do we encourage these scouts to serve in leadership positions?

[Bob White]

I think it starts way before they get to a leadership position. A patrol meeting should not be that different than a PLC meeting it just has the Patrol Leader chairing it instead of the Senior Patrol Leader. Get scouts involved in cooperative decision making early on in the New Scout Patrol.

 

Coach and mentor the junior leaders in the leadership styles of scouting so that the scouts not yet in leadership positions begin to understand the leadership culture of the troop by how they are treated by the junior leaders.

 

Start with small responsibilities and work up to the big ones. Understand that it is a cycle, About the time things are running smoothly, leadership positions will change and you will backslide a little. You can minimize this by staggering the patrol elections so that not all the leadership positions change at one time.

 

The goal is not about having a smooth running troop, it is about developing the individual scout.

 

[Stosh]

Hotdesk, you didn't identify how much directive the SM gives to the troop at the present time. If the troop is adult-led, the boys quickly figure out that it is a waste of time to try and lead. Why try, they're going to get out maneuvered by an adult anyway. There is nothing worse than being given a responsibility and then no authority to do it. This may be one of the reasons why your older boys are acting up, frustration and no valid leadership opportunities.

 

I would recommend starting all over from scratch. Have the boys (and I emphasize just boys) organize into the patrols of their own choosing, and then have them select from their midst one to lead. This person does not need to meet any requiments specified by the now defunct PLC. If a TFoot steps forward, he's PL and is your newest student on leadership skills. Make sure they know there will be no SM, ASM, involved in how that patrol will be run for the next 6? months. This means all troop level "officers" are to hook up with a patrol or form one of their own. Make it clear to them that if they need POR over the next six months, the only available jobs will be PL and they had better find a patrol that needs one. They can do whatever they as a patrol decide to do. The adults will only provide information from the council, camps, etc. that are sending info to the troops. It's up to the boys to decide what they want with it. Make sure they fully understand that the adults will become involved in the activities of the patrol ONLY IF SPECIFICALLY ASKED to do so. They will also be available to the PL's (and APL's if the patrol wants them) for leadership instruction and suggestions if asked.

 

If your PL's wish to continue meeting as the PLC they can do so and if they wish the may designate one of them to act as SPL. No SPL POR however assigned until after the 6 month trial period. (Sooner if the boys insist on it, after all, it's their PLC.) If there's a need for a QM, TG, or Scribe, anyone who wants can step into that position but no POR assigned until after the 6 month trial period (again, unless the boys insist on it, it's their troop after all) If a tenderfoot wants to be the QM he can be the QM.

 

As SM, take this time to observe and listen to the dynamics of what happens. Make yourself available to listen to their individual concerns, empathize with them, but hold the line firm.

 

If someone volunteers as a troop "Officer", be available to assist them in their duties or spell out for them what their duties might entail, but don't lift a finger to do or direct their choices.

 

Once a month, or more often than that even, sit down with the boys and evaluate how things are going. Listen, observe, but do not participate in the discussion or offer any form of "guidance". Let them work out the kinks the best they can.

 

You have older scouts that are causing behavior problems because they aren't really leading anything. Is it behavior problems or general frustration on the part of these older boys? It's time for them to take over and prove their skills. If they have been offered the offered the responsibility and full authority to fulfill that responsibility without any adult interference, I think they will take over before the troop suffers too long. As a matter of fact I don't think it will suffer at all. The skills and talent is there in your troop, challenge it. Put the choice in their laps and step back and let them figure it out. They know the routines. I do believe that if they feel responsible for the success of the troop they'll answer accordingly.

 

Right now, only the SM and ASM feel the pinch to succeed. Give it to the scouts where it belongs.

 

If nothing else, you will quickly find out which of those scouts really do care and are willing to step up to the plate and which ones really don't. A leadership opportunity for anyone of those who care will be the future of your troop.

 

Right now I am rebuilding a troop that has fallen on hard times, has had some serious problems, and currently has only 2 officers, both PL's. One is Life scout new to the troop and is younger, the other was viewed as a problem for the troop. They are now my two strongest leaders. It does work.

 

Stosh

 

 

[acco40]

Bob,

 

I'm interested in how you would implement staggering patrol elections. Are you suggesting Patrol 1 elect a PL in January, Patrol 2 in February, Patrol 3 in March, etc.?

 

If a Scout want to become an SPL, how does he approach the PL position opportunity if it does not fall on the same schedule?

 

 

[Bob White]

Very much like that. The PL could still be a candidate for SPL and if elected the patrol would have a new elction for the remainder of the term.

[Beavah]

Yah, hotdesk, I'd expect that response anytime an adult stepped in the front of a crowded room and said "would one of you like to step forward." I bet yeh get the same response from a group of parents, eh?

 

As jblake describes, it's a bit hard not knowin' your unit culture or history. But I think this is an adult association game. Yeh plant the seeds talkin' to prospective future troop leaders on car rides and on campouts. "You know, you've got some good ideas. You should be PL!" "You're clearly one of the most qualified, and I and your peers really trust you. You should think about bein' SPL."

 

As the date gets closer, yeh might even ask privately. "George, I hope you'll step up and volunteer to be QM. We need someone like you."

 

As Kudu suggests, if yeh identify the "natural" leaders and rascals and tap 'em out this way, you can be amazed sometimes.

 

Beavah

 

[FScouter]

Beavah has a good suggestion. Kids aren't motivated by any speech from the SM about leadership being a goal or role or purpose of Scouting.

[hotdesk]

The scouts are the ones that lead in our troop. They have an annual troop planning conference, plan the program for outings and meetings, carry out Court of Honors, and do the instructions during meetings. They have a monthly PLC meeting where the SPL develops the agenda and they plan all the events for the upcoming month. All scouts that serve as PLC leaders (ASPL, PLs, TG, Scribe, and JASM) give reports to the PLC to update them on their position and any problems they are having. The PLC then discusses ways to corret these problems.

 

The adults make themselves available for guidance and direction. They don't step in to run things and those that do are pulled to the side to make sure that boys are given the chance to lead.

 

The reason that this discussion was held in front of the whole troop is that we have had this problem (which has increased) ongoing for the last two years. This time no one at all is interested (which we've had private discussions with scouts that we would like to see in the position). During the last two years we have only had 1 person interested at each election. We decided to discuss this issue has a troop to see what responses we could get for scouts not being interested.

 

As far as running a smooth troop I'm not sure if that is our concern. Our concern is that there aren't scouts interested in serving in the positions of SPL (and two that I didn't mention eariler) ASPL and Troop Guide.

 

JBlake47 mentioned that there will be olders scouts that know the routine and will take over when the see the need. We do have 1 scout that has continued to serve the troop during the last 2 years when we have needed it most. He served as SPL for a year (our guidelines say after two terms you have to take a 1 term break). The only problem is that now he will be leaving the troop at the beginning of summer to attend college. The rest of claimed that they are to busy to serve, and while the do attend, no longer seem to take ownership in their troop. These are scouts and young men that used to take the ownership. Used to serve as Patrol Leaders, Troop Guides, and Senior Patrol Leaders. You have older scouts that are causing behavior problems because they aren't really leading anything. Is it behavior problems or general frustration on the part of these older boys? It's time for them to take over and prove their skills. If they have been offered the offered the responsibility and full authority to fulfill that responsibility without any adult interference, I think they will take over before the troop suffers too long. As a matter of fact I don't think it will suffer at all. The skills and talent is there in your troop, challenge it. Put the choice in their laps and step back and let them figure it out. They know the routines. I do believe that if they feel responsible for the success of the troop they'll answer accordingly.

 

[Beavah]

??? We need a question mark smillie! ???

 

Yah, hotdesk, yeh done and confused me there, eh? Was that just you answerin' your own question?

 

If so... um, good, I guess! Proceed!

 

Beavah

 

[Venividi]

Another thought - perhaps scouts have met their leadership requirements in past offices, and, having met the requirement for their own advancement, are satisfied because they are focused on their own needs and not the needs of their patrol and troop? jblakes strategy may work in this instance also. Perhaps a campout or two will get cancelled because no one steps up?

[Eagledad]

Another Great Winter Day All

 

My question hotdesk is if you asked the scouts what the rewards and benefits of leadership in your troop are, what do you think they will say?

 

I think getting a scouts to seek out leadership is a culture change. Im wanting to say it the shift of going from the mindset of a boy to a man. But I think it is even more then that.

 

Scouting is a safe place. We say that a lot, but what does it mean. Well to me that means scouts are free to act and behave in the way THEY think is appropriate and not feel they will get called down if they dont meet up to expectation. I found that few scouts will make decisions on their own initiative when they think the adults will react negatively.

 

A safe troop is one where the adults view bad performance as good opportunities to grow.

 

In that kind of troop, the scout knows he has free reign to act the way he thinks is right and the worst that will happen is that they will try again differently to get better performance. That is in all activities, but very important in Leadership.

 

I didnt spend much time talking before elections,, but what I told the scouts was leadership is the opportunity for them to learn. "If you think you know how to do the job well, then you are the wrong person for it. Leave that space open for the next guy to learn and grow from his struggles and mistakes. If you are afraid to screw up, then the job is not for you. Learning from mistakes is the best method of learning, so we not only expect you to make mistakes, we want you to makes mistakes. I promise you will learn a lot if you meet those requirements."

 

A lot adults think that boys are lazy and just dont want to work. And some are that way, but I found that most are just afraid or tired of adults jumping down their throat. And I understand. Every year at summer camp our scouts and adults are reminded how quiet our troop is when it comes to adult and scout relations. You can hear so many adults in other troops yelling at their scouts through the week. The first half of the week is telling scouts what to do. The last half is yelling about all the things they did wrong.

 

Maybe that is why I didnt like any yelling in our troop. If you couldnt handle leading in a normal tone voice, then it was likely you needed to step away at the moment and/or needed to learn a new style of leadership. Yelling to me is a red flag that you need more skills guidence and the scouts learn that pretty quickly.

 

One other thing; our scouts knew who their leaders were. We have a PLC meeting every day of our activities for some reason, and they always get some kind of treat like coke, candy, sometimes pizza, or whatever I can come up with at the time. They work hard and they were rewarded for their effort.

 

Hope this helps in some way.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Bob White]

I am not big on building a scouts hopes up that he will be elected, or doing the SPL's job of selecting the QM and other troop officers for him.

 

If a patrol has no patrol leader elected that is up to them. No patrol leader, no patrol activities will get SM approval. No patrol leader, no representative at the PLC to make troop plans that effect their patrol. Their choice.

 

No QM, no troop gear can be packed. No librarian no resource materials will be available through the troop.

 

If they don't need those services then there is no need for the office to be filled...but if they do need those services...

[hotdesk]

From what I'm reading the main suggestion is to let the position not be filled and have a few meetings and outings cancelled. After this happens, if the scouts really want a troop, they will welcome the opportunity to serve.

 

I'm not sure I really like this idea though. There needs to be a better way to encourage scouts to serve in leadership positions than this.

 

Sure BW mentioned a constant culture of leadership. I think and I hope that this is the way that our troop is treating this topic. Maybe an outsider actually seeing the troop in action may have to tell me differently.

 

Again I like jblakes suggestions, but in our troop not only is the Senior Patrol Leader a top leadership position it is also a ceremonial position. The Senior Patrol Leader is the one that represents our troop in front of our Chartered Organization on Scout Sunday. He is the only the MCs the Court of Honors. He is the one that again represents the troop at Eagle Court of Honors (which we should have several during the next 6 months). Our troop is also pretty good at District Klondikes. He is the only that leads the troop in the opening ceremony. These ceremonial things go along with his responsiblities of leading the Annual Troop Planning Conference, planning the PLC meetings and leading them, leading the meetings, delegating responsiblites for outings, and doing those types of things.

 

Venididi mentioned that """Another thought - perhaps scouts have met their leadership requirements in past offices, and, having met the requirement for their own advancement, are satisfied because they are focused on their own needs and not the needs of their patrol and troop?"""" It seems to me that this may be another issue that we are experiencing. How to we correct this issue?

[Bob White]

Help me out Hotdesk,

 

"From what I'm reading the main suggestion is to let the position not be filled and have a few meetings and outings cancelled."

 

I have read back through all the posts in the thread and I cannot fond a single post that recommends that. Yet, you say it is the main suggestion?

 

Can you help me out here?

 

BW

[Kudu]

hotdesk writes:

 

"However, how do we encourage these scouts to serve in leadership positions?"

 

Are you asking how to encourage these Scouts to serve? Or are you really asking how to get them to enter your February popularity contest? Scouting was invented by a man named Lord Baden-Powell and he did not believe in elections for Patrol Leaders.

 

I would go a step further than BobWhite and note that a Patrol should never have an election unless they actually need a new Patrol Leader. Then you only need to find one good leader at a time.

 

If popularity contests are not working for you then why not follow the Founder's advice:

 

1) Figure out who your best leader is.

 

2) Personally ask him to serve.

 

3) Consult the PLC or the Patrol about your choice and get their approval (if elections are important then make this an up or down vote on your proposal).

 

In other words if nobody wants to run then skip the whole pageant of finding potential losers to run against the best leaders.

 

B-P did not have POR requirements either. They detract from the Patrol Method. Find some alternative for PORs and leave your best leaders alone.

 

"The answer that no one is interested in serving was not a surprise to me. In our area we have several county, city, and township elections that have 1 or fewer candidates running for these positions."

 

By any chance do you live in a community that sees government as "the problem"? I ask because you write that your "guidelines say after two terms you have to take a 1 term break." Term Limits? So you have one natural leader, he gets elected by the Scouts and you make a special point of discouraging him from serving by telling the Scouts they can't vote for him anymore?

 

And you wonder why your Scouts think leadership sucks?

 

Beavah writes:

 

"if yeh identify the "natural" leaders and rascals and tap 'em out this way, you can be amazed sometimes."

 

Yeah, and the very first place I would look is the former leaders who "are now those that are causing behavioral issues within the troop:"

 

One of our methods in the Scout movement for taming a hooligan is to appoint him head of a Patrol. He has all the necessary initiative, the spirit and the magnetism for leadership, and when responsibility is thus put upon him it gives him the outlet he needs for his exuberance of activity, but gives it in a right direction (Baden-Powell, from the article "Are Our Boys Degenerating?" circa 1918).

 

I would also point out that it is not unusual for a Troop to have only one gifted natural leader who is not already committed to sports, a job, or some other non-Scouting activity.

 

Stosh is lucky to have two. I like his idea of building the Troop around his two good leaders. If you only have one exceptionally good leader and he is a Patrol Leader, and if you make sure that the other Patrol Leaders are the best natural leaders in their Patrols then they will try to rise to the best leader's level.

 

If natural leaders are in short supply, you certainly do NOT need an SPL.

 

Baden-Powell considered that position optional for the same reason that hotdesk notes: If you are actually using the Patrol Method then the SPL is mostly a ceremonial position. The Patrol Leaders can take turns representing your troop in front of your Chartered Organization on Scout Sunday, MCing the Court of Honor, representing the troop at Eagle Courts of Honor, and leading the troop in the opening ceremony; along with leading the Annual Troop Planning Conference, planning the PLC meetings and leading them, leading the meetings, and delegating responsibilities for outings.

 

That is the way that Baden-Powell designed Scouting.

 

Kudu

(This message has been edited by kudu)