The BSA Program, Chartering, and Unit Compliance

[Beavah]

Sorry, I know a lot of captains that would like to think that is true. but the BSA has already determined the destination (the Mission) and the course, (the Scouting program).

 

Nah, lad, that would be another misinterpretation, eh? Da BSA determines its own mission, certainly. It's mission is to make charts, and to be helpful to boat owners. The way it's helpful to boat owners, is to provide books about sailing and crew management, training on navigation, boat insurance and da like. That's the Scoutin' program.

 

In the old days folks who took other peopls boats and went where they pleased were called pirates

 

Yah, exactly! And da BSA is not in favor of piracy. The boat is owned by the CO, and the Skipper works for the CO. If the BSA tried to determine da mission and da course, that would be piracy. Or mutiny. And we hang both of 'em types from da yardarm, eh?

 

Beavah

 

 

[dScouter15]

So, who's going to enforce all this? Professionals? Commissioners? Off duty law enforcement moonlighting as the Patch Police?

 

And, how will it be enforced? Take the unit that allow scouts to wear blue jeans instead of Scout pants/shorts? Will they be fined? Have their charter revoked? Have their transgressions printed for all to see in the councils bimonthly newsletter?

 

I know my council has intervened in the affairs of the units when safety issues are raised, or if someone appeals advancement decisions. I'm thinking that if the council was more aggressive in "enforcing" uniform policies, making sure no one adds to the requirements for the Pulp & Paper MB, etc, they'd really aggravate a lot of leaders who, in general, deliver an excellent Scouting program to their unit. They'd also probably alienate a lot of potential scouts and scouters. Seeing as the council's (professional) interests seem to involve limiting liability, and registering as many members as possible, I don't see them doing ANYTHING to "enforce" uniforming, advancement, etc policies, unless they somehow relate to safety and liability. From a practical standpoint, I think that this particular case is closed.

 

From a more philosophical standpoint, I'd love to see a BSA with policies and procedures that individual units want to follow. Perhaps this means loosening up on some policies - for instance, make the uniform more flexible, practical and cheaper (in their defense, they seem to be heading in this direction with the switchbacks). Maybe provide additional training to show volunteers the benefits of the BSA's policies (this would require, by the way, that the policies actually have some benefit to volunteers and scouts).

 

I guess, maybe, the question shouldn't be "how can we make units following BSA policy, exactly?" But rather, "how might National update their policies to be relevant, practical, and beneficial for professionals and volunteers at the national, council, and individual unit level?"

[Bob White]

There is no such thing as a policy everyone will follow. Policies like laws will only be followed by people who understand the responsibility of following rules. people who drive 30 miles an hour in a 30 MPH zone do not do it because they enjoy driving 30 or because they agree the speed should be 30. They do it because they accept the responsibility as a citizen to obey the laws that govern the community.

 

You do not need to like the uniform to accept and follow the uniform policies. You just need to accept that as a member of a community that you respect the policies that govern the community. the same is true of rules at work or school. You cannot make a rule that everyone will follow because it is not about liking or disliking the rule it is the character of the individual that will determine if he respects his commumity or puts himself above it.

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, the point is that BSA program resources are not the same thing as government laws passed by elected representatives, eh? So a speed limit comparison is spurious. It's not da right way to think about a unit volunteer's relationship to the BSA.

 

A unit volunteer is an agent for the Chartered Organization, offerin' a youth program to meet the CO's goals. To help with that, the BSA provides resources to assist in that mission. There's no mandate to use all the resources or methods. You don't even have to buy a handbook or own a uniform. There's no requirement to do everything the same as other troops. There are a few rules & regulations so as not to harm da value of the BSA's program to other groups - rules about membership, rules about not usin' trademarked materials inappropriately, etc. Those are da things we may disagree with, but go along with as a condition for licensing the program. Those are the things da BSA occasionally takes action to enforce.

 

For the rest, it's pretty open, eh? Some units run fantabulous outdoors programs. Some not so much. A few run sterling Patrol Method; many, not so much. Some value spit-and-polish uniformin'; some, not so much. Some units run age-based, and even kick kids out of Boy Scouting at age 14, others run traditional and keep boys to 18. All these things are BSA Scouting. Fellow citizens in a common movement, tryin' to do somethin' special for kids in our local area and organizations.

 

But there is a common community ethic and character. A shared sense of personal choices that enable us to recognize each other whether in uniform or not, outdoors or not, advancing or not, working toward different goals or the same. It ain't tied to a policy or to program resources. In fact, it isn't tied to da BSA at all, but joins us to our brother and sister scouts across the world.

 

On my honor, I will do my best...

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

Trustworthy is trustworthy, whether it is obeying a speed limit, following a commandment, following a policy at work, playing a game by the rules, or even following a BSA policy.

 

Understanding that all these things are about agreeing to a code that governs a community is part of good citizenship and good leadership.

 

They are dependent on the character of the individual.

 

To think that you can ignore the rules you dislike and obey the rules you choose is unnacceptable in any civilized society. It is hypocritical to the Scout Oath and Law.

[OldGreyEagle]

Gentlemen, if I may...

 

The CO of the Troop I serve is great, the Pastor calls me by name and the Troop helps set up the Fellowship Hall after meetings for banquets so often it usually takes 10 minutes to provide seating for 150. The COuncil Dinner will be there this week. BUT

 

Many posters have commented here that they have CO's in name only. A lot is layed off on the CO and speaking from my experience, many CO's could care less. The annual meeting for the Council will be held prior to the Dinner. If the lessons of the past holds true, perhaps 25% if that many of the CO's will be represented, if that many. The COuncil President will be elected amoung other offices to the approval of a paltry amount of CO representation.

 

The Council I serve has required training policies and we have dropped units that didnt meet the criteria. I think it might be time to require the CO's to be present at the Annual Meeting. I mean, every 365 days or so, a representative of the CO has to show up to see who is running the program from the Council level. Is that too much to ask? So much power is in the hands of the CO's and I am not sure all that many realize or care to exercise it.

[John-in-KC]

OGE wrote, in part:

 

I think it might be time to require the CO's to be present at the Annual Meeting. I mean, every 365 days or so, a representative of the CO has to show up to see who is running the program from the Council level. Is that too much to ask? So much power is in the hands of the CO's and I am not sure all that many realize or care to exercise it.

 

OGE,

 

I think that is a superb idea. Contract, in the Charter, that the IH/COR attends the annual business meeting. Of course, it's only a start, but any start is a good start.

 

[Beavah]

To think that you can ignore the rules you dislike and obey the rules you choose is unnacceptable in any civilized society. It is hypocritical to the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Nobody was talkin' about anything like that, BobWhite.

 

Da point is to understand which things are rules and which are not.

 

And often, in countries like ours that have so many rules it takes dozens of volumes to list them all, it takes a social understanding and bein' Mentally Awake to know which ones are significant. Good citizens take a few minutes to understand how da system works and what the intent of the rule was. Dat's why we teach the lads Citizenship, eh? It's important to understand how the system works. Da Congress and the Courts do not have to obey the Executive Branch, eh? No matter how many Executive Orders get issued.

 

The legal structure and "citizenship" of BSA Scoutin' is what I described, eh? That's how we became the biggest and best youth program in America! A unit Scouter's duty is legally and ethically only to da CO.

 

As for CO's and such, I'd be happy if they were reached out to before they were required, eh? Often I reckon SE's view CO's as a nuisance, and would much prefer to stack the "active" board with their own picks. DE's are supposed to do IH visits at least once a year, eh? In decades of Scoutin', I think I can remember one DE who was diligent about that. He left in under a year. Poor performance evaluation because he was spendin' his time on that sort of service rather than Popcorn and FOS.

 

There's a lot of room to improve how we're friendly and welcoming and respectful to da IH's and COR's, before ever needin' to get to requirements. I reckon most CO's feel da only real voice they have is through da Relationships Committees.

 

Beavah

 

[RememberSchiff]

This is a good example of too much HASSLE in the program. Look at your data, if 25% willingly (grudgingly) come why is that? We should be grateful for the free meeting space and drop the attitude "what's one more meeting" with our volunteers and benefactors.

 

In our unit, we currently ask our CO to attend 10 Troop Committee meetings + 1 Saturday Recharter + 1 ECOH + various troop meetings +... Not surprisingly, our CO, a good guy, is feeling stressed. He showed us a folder with about two dozen worthy groups (most are local, non-franchised youth groups) who made a request this past August for meeting space. Not one of these groups asked that the church "sign" a contract, "micromanage" their group, "police" any program, "select" any leaders, or even attend any meetings though the welcome to the church was there. He asked, "Isn't a free meeting place with storage enough support? Why can't your troop and district manage themselves, afterall I see the troop earned the Quality Award again?"

 

The BSA-Character Organization model needs a reality check. I worry if the Charter contract is made more demanding, my unit might disappear.

 

Less HASSLE please. KISKIF for all.

 

[scoutldr]

That begs the question...if your CO is not willing to fulfill the terms of the Charter Agreement, why did they sign it???

[Bob White]

We should be grateful for the free meeting space and drop the attitude "what's one more meeting" with our volunteers and benefactors.

 

Personally, I would be embarrassed to be in a program where I felt that way.

 

We are not beggars looking for a hand out or a warm room, and if you are willing to be treated that way then that is the status you will convey to the administration at your Charter Organization.

 

We are a part of their youth education program, members of their organizations youth activities committee, we are not beggars, we do not "get what we can", we deserve the same resources and attention as any other committee in the charter organization's family of services.

 

This is their Scout program, we work for them. And if your employer treats you like a beggar at the door then you should leave and find an organization who will give your efforts the respect it deserves, as they give any other program director. If you stay then you deserve the treatment you get.

 

A charter organization that does not support their programs does not deserve those programs, and the leaders and the scouts should join a unit where they are supported as part of the CO's program.

 

If you are not THEIR scout unit, then you are merely the Scout unit that meets THERE, and that is no way to develop a quality Scouting program.

 

As for Quality Unit Award. You need to realize that it tracks the MINIMUM program you should be delivering in order to say you have a scouting program.

 

EVERY unit should earn this award EVERY year or you have serious problems that need attention in the unit.

 

 

 

 

 

[RememberSchiff]

My point is that the BSA-Charter Organization model is not working. It needs to be reconsidered.

 

I am proud to be with this Charter Organization and I think their concerns and perspective are well considered. Our scout program is quite excellent, but the CO has little if anything to do with that other than providing a meeting place. Our CO suggested moving to a simpler "sponsor" model like Little League (his analogy) as an improvement. Their statements I quoted are feedback from our CO.

 

Now if you want an example of a Character Org that I want nothing to do with, consider this visit last March that my Webelos son and I had to Troop X which met at a local hall complete with a overstocked bar in the meeting area. The District Commish and Scoutmaster greeted us at the Gathering. The Scoutmaster yelled out, "Alright, line up". Scouts threw their Scout handbooks on the bar. The DC winked at me and said "Great troop. Earned the Quality Unit Award again this year!" The SM then proceeded "Scout salute..." My son and I left after the opening. I spoke to that council and I was the only one who had a problem. My son and I joined another troop in another council despite the long drive.

 

Long ago, when I was scout, my council had a policy that NO organizations that served or sold alcohol could be charter organizations. No exceptions. Maybe it was just the time or my council, anyway years later I was very upset to see scout handbooks on a bar. Still bothers me.

[evmori]

A charter organization that does not support their programs does not deserve those programs, and the leaders and the scouts should join a unit where they are supported as part of the CO's program.

 

If this took place, there would be a major drop in units and members. The reality is most CO's are in name only. It is not the responsibility of the unit volunteers to get the CO up to speed. That is the job of the local council.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

A TEMPORARY drop in units certainly. A major loss in youth members, doubtful, they woiuld simply transfer to heathier units in most cases. A loss of leaders yes, but odds are a loss of untrained leaders.

 

I would bet SE's understand that the CO's are vital to scouting, and have a better idea of who the unit belongs to than most unit leaders do.

 

Remember Schiff

It is a shame your CO wants you to just be something they tossa few dollars at and point to as theirs. It is also a shame tat no one in the unit has taken the time to explain their importance to the scouting program to them. You seem to want the Distric and council to manage the units and that is not their responsiblity. They are their to support the CO's Scouting unit, not to manage them for the COs.

 

The example you give of the other unit is not an example of a problem with the BSA, it is another example of an untrained leader leading a program with no oversight from a committee or CO. That is not how the program is designed or taught. It is simply how it is being misused by that unit.

 

"later I was very upset to see scout handbooks on a bar." What would you prefer be read at a bar?

 

 

[evmori]

A TEMPORARY drop in units certainly. A major loss in youth members, doubtful, they woiuld simply transfer to heathier units in most cases. A loss of leaders yes, but odds are a loss of untrained leaders.

 

Who said the unit wasn't healthy? Just because the CO is a CO in name only in no way indicates an unhealthy unit. Nor does it indicate untrained leaders.

 

I think there would be a large loss of unit as well as Scouts. Yep some will catch on with other units but there will be a decline in total membership.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10