The BSA Program, Chartering, and Unit Compliance

[John-in-KC]

BW,

 

Youth protection.

 

From the post, but with carriage returns...

 

National Camp Standards (which is a safety, liability, and labor law check),

Advancement standards, especially at the level of Eagle Scout,

youth protection,

and commercial use of Scoutings trademarks(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Beavah]

So, when you say youth groups are not good at stanardization, which groups do you mean?

 

Yah, groups with an educational purpose that run more than one activity, or activities that last longer than an hour.

 

But even in da very adult-run sports groups you mention, OGE, if you look at the quality of coaching, the standards for behavior/sportsmanship permitted by different coaches/teams, etc. you see that they ain't very standardized at all. A few teams are almost always top of the league, some are real disasters, etc.

 

B

 

[Bob White]

Thanks John,

Okay, lets look at some of the misconceptions I mentioned. Let's take these four areas first. You are correct that there are 4 areas of BSA policy that effect unit operation. There are other areas of policy that do not effect unit operation, for instance employment policies.

 

The four areas of BSA policies that do effect unit operation are; Advancement, Membership, Safety, and Uniforming.

 

Youth protection is a safety issue. Trademark protection is not a unit operation issue it only effects individual or businesses offering products or services using the trademarked or copyright properties of the BSA.

 

As far as guessing what I think about the Charter Organization relationship to the BSA, I ask that you simply ask what I think rather than make innacurrate statements of what I think.

 

I have no 'opinion' on the matter. The school of thought I subscribe to are that facts of the matter as explained by the BSA.

 

The BSA "charter concept" makes the charter organization the owner of the unit, but the BSA retains the ownership of the program. The two organizqation contract annually through a document called the Shared Responsibilities Agreement which outlines the roles and responsibilities of each organization.

 

The charter organization by signature of its Institutional Head agrees to follow the program, policies and procedures of the BSA. This includes acceptint the responsibility to select leader for the unit that will do the same.

 

The unit's leaders all sign BSA membership application forms in which by their signature they contract with the BSA (and I quote) "I agree to comply with the Charter and Bylaws, and the rules and regulations, of the Boy Scouts of America and the local council.

 

So what is the the policing agent for the policies of the BSA regarding unit leaders? It is the individual integrity of the volunteers selected and by the chartering organizations. Each is only as good as their name.

 

Is the BSa /Co relationship similar to a franchise? Yes in many ways. Let's consider how. McDonalds owns the name image and controls the product. Each store can be coiunted on and is expected to deliver the same product at the same quality. To that end the Corporate office makes identical and specific training available to every employee. The quality of that employee rests in the hands of the franchise owners who is rfesponsible for choosing their own workers. Is there flexibility. Yes, not every store is identical in the decor of its dining room, and not every customer comes in to get the same kind of meal. But each store using the same products is capbale of meeting each customers needs at the same expected quality from their menu.

 

Now let's look at the program itself. Is the BSA program flexible. Yes, to a very large degree in that the activities of the program are flexible, but not the Aims, Methods, and Mission. Not all units meet in the same size or decor for their meeting rooms, not all go to the same camps, not all have the same program calendar. But each should be delivering the various prgram elements in the samew way at a reasonable similar quality.

 

Flexible it seems in some peoples minds means that as long as you are the scoutleader you can do what you want and call it scouting. That simply is not the case. Even in its flexibility there are still right way and wrong ways to do things according to the program.

 

A program by definition has a recognized structure and common elements and practices. Simply doing what you want to do in a Scout uniform does not make it a Scouting program.

 

Commissioner service:

The role of commissioner is to provide service and support to Scouting units with the specific goal of "insuring that every eligible youth has the opportunity to participate in a "quality" Scouting program."

 

That is a very broad fresonsibility which involves differing types of commissioning at nearly every level of scouting. Outside of paid professionals, only Commissioners where the "wreath of service" on their uniforms. This represents that the commissioner is charged with representing the official program, policies, and procedures of the BSA. As we know just from posts by some current and former commissioners on this forum that there are those who do not know and or do not support those elements.

 

Part of the problem that I have observed is the the number of trained commissioners is even lower than the number of trained unit volunteers, so we truly have a case of the unknowing leading the unwilling. Many commissioners are placed in that position based on tenure rather than on actual use or knowledge of the scouting program at any level.

 

I am aware of a couple of cases where fellows were moved into a unit commissioner position at the request of the unit just to get them out of their hair. Then what happens is this "commissioner" gets other units assigned to them and is now sharing their poor scouting habits and techniques with units who do not realize this person's lack of abilities.

 

Selecting the right people and training them properly solves pretty much all of Scoutings problems.

 

So what actual authority does the Commissioner have? Compare them to a baseball unpire. Three strikes and the batter is out. The Umpire evaluates the play and informs the player, but what oif the player does not want to leave the plate? Does the unpire have the authority to remove him? Can the umpire fine him? NO.

 

So what can he do. He turns to the manager of the team and says "control your player". It is up to the teanm amnagement to liove up to their agreement to follow the game ands its rules or a higher authority can becom involved and as one poster would say "there could be consequences!

 

 

When a unit or leader is not following the game of scouting the commissioner evaluates the game and informs the players of how to play correctly. If they refuse he or she goes to the charter organization that owns the team and says "yiou need to control your players. You agreed to follow the program, and they aren't doin" that. how can I help you gain back a quality scouting program"

 

It might be the commissioner is required to coach or mentor, it might mean bringing in the training resources of the district,it might be helping the CO recruit better players.

 

 

 

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Bob,

 

Your missive identified the meat of the issue:

 

"I agree to comply with the Charter and Bylaws, and the rules and regulations, of the Boy Scouts of America and the local council.

 

Yet...

 

As you note, and as others note, our Commissioner service is understaffed (we can't find enough volunteers) to meet its tasks.

 

What Commissioner service we have is not always willing to execute its mandated tasks. The ADC supporting my Chartered Partner told my IH "I have no UCs to support you and I can visit each of your units only once this coming year."

 

Beavah hit it square: It comes down to trust. The issue I have is at what point do we say "You've earned trust." I come from the military; trust isn't free... it's earned, and it can be lost. B, that's perhaps the one exception I take with your portion of this colloquy.

 

BW, if I understand what you wrote correctly, your premise is "I volunteer to have absolutely comply."

 

That's different from "I volunteer, will use the materials in the most appropriate way for my circumstances, but reserve the right to deviate left and right of the centerline when my circumstances necessitate it."

 

From observation, I think the last is what actually happens in the field. Lisabob, in her membership thread, discussed where a Council deviated on enrolling an underage youth to a particular program, and did so willingly. I post in the OA forum a fair bit about how my Council and a neighboring one use the Tribe of Mic-o-Say as a Scouting Honor Society (and in one Council, not even having an OA Lodge). That's a thought-through and decided-upon deviation from the centerline.

 

So, I will keep muddling along in my unit-serving position and my District position. I will keep learning, both in Scouting training packages and in other ways, to improve myself, the units I serve, and the greater good.

 

... and I will accept that units will do their best to implement the Aims, but may not necessarily fully implement all the Methods of their Scouting program.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[FScouter]

BW, if I understand what you wrote correctly, your premise is "I volunteer to have absolutely comply."

That's different from "I volunteer, will use the materials in the most appropriate way for my circumstances, but reserve the right to deviate left and right of the centerline when my circumstances necessitate it."

 

Come on, lets be fair. If Scouting is a road, units are expected to stay between the left and right shoulders. When someone drives off the road and starts tearing up the countryside because he thinks he knows a shortcut, that is not a deviation from centerline necessitated by circumstances. Similarly, an agreement to comply doesnt mean stay on the centerline. There is no BSA centerline, only the road between the shoulders between which is a ton of space in which to maneuver.

[evmori]

Great analogy FScouter! Whole lots better than the McDonald's or sports teams analogies.

 

If Scouting is a road, there is room to move around on that road. The goal is not to run off the road yet keep moving.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Bob White]

Fine if we are to use the roan example lets remember that vehicle (the unit) does not belong to the driver, he is being allowed behind the wheel at the discretion of the owner (the CO) and road he travels was designed build and owned by another (the BSA) and the driver agredd in writing by his or her own signiture to obey every traffic law and follow the road the designers laid out in the manner they prescribed.

 

Yes John,

When you agreed to follow the rules you agreed to follow ALL the rules. The Council is both an independent corportation and the local legal agent of the BSA with its own policies and procedures which are different in somne ways from those that the COs and volunteers are responsible for and to.

 

BW

[dan]

After watching some of the things that I have seen follow scouters do I do not believe that common sense is that common.

[John-in-KC]

To all,

 

Believe it or not, this thread has helped me set my vision for further service in Scouting.

 

I like FScouter's road metaphor. Roads have engineering criteria...

 

At one viewpoint, we have BW's interpretation.

 

At a different viewpoint, we have B's interpretation.

 

My vision and interpretation are settling closer to B's than to BW's, but not identical.

 

I'm off to Scout Camp. Workday's tomorrow, and there is ice storm damage to clean up, and cots to repair for the season. It's time for me to remember that the youth we enroll are the reason all of us come together

 

Outta here.

[evmori]

Well, personally, I own my vehicle. Bought & paid for. Free & clear. And the rules of the road change by state & county and in some case by municipality.

 

Scouting is the road. Units are the cars. The adult leadership is the driver of those cars. Each doing their best to follow the road.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[dan]

While driving on this road I am going to read the newspaper and talk on the phone while I driving, it is not illegal here.

 

How many of you use your turn signals when changing lanes? It is not illegal not to.

[OldGreyEagle]

I know every analogy limps, but what to do with all those off the road guys?

[Bob White]

Encourage the car owners to take the cars away from them and find BETTER DRIVERS!

[Beavah]

Or the unit is a boat, and da CO is the owner of the boat, and da BSA publishes charts and manuals and offers training to help sail the boat, plus providin' some ports for provisions and activities along the way. Da boat owner chooses the destination, the crew gets to decide the route.

 

Yah, analogies get really bizarre.

 

I think it's important to remember that da Charter & Bylaws, and the Rules & Regulations that scouters nominally agree to are real documents. They're actually very brief and very "big picture." Things like da 3G membership requirements and such. They are not the same thing as program documents like G2SS, the Scoutmaster's Handbook, or all that stuff. That's just helpful program resource.

 

For my part, I disagree pretty strongly with BobWhite's characterization of Commissioners as umpires makin' calls. That's back to da "being in charge" thing again. The Commissioner Service of the BSA is a service. We don't tell people things, call strikes, or order them "out." That's not da BSA program. We're guests of the units who are there to assist 'em with resources and ideas, as part of keepin' da BSA's side of the Charter Agreement.

 

So if I'm invited aboard da boat, I'm gonna behave like a good friend and guest, eh? I'm not gonna criticize the skipper while he's sailin'. I'm gonna enjoy the time, and look around, and watch the crew. I might suggest that I've been to Port Camporee, and it might be a fun place to stop if they're goin' that way. If the opportunity arises, I might give 'em a hint on how to trim a mainsail a bit tighter on a close reach. And if they're sailin' into rough weather, I'll do my part and lend a hand, offerin' my expertise to da skipper.

 

I'm not an umpire. I'm a friendly old salt.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

"Da boat owner chooses the destination, the crew gets to decide the route."

 

Sorry, I know a lot of captains that would like to think that is true. but the BSA has already determined the destination (the Mission) and the course, (the Scouting program). In the old days folks who took other peopls boats and went where they pleased were called pirates, and they at least took off their nations uniform and flew their own flag eh!