Removing Scoutmaster from Position

[Source]

Is there a proper way of removing a SM from his position to allow a more qualified person to take over, if the present SM has no intention on stepping down ?

 

The problem is I know of a SM who is running his troop as HIS TROOP not always as a BSA troop. He sometimes sets his own rules that may be different than BSA rules and his reason is, he is the SM and he makes the final rule for his troop. One example is allowing a boy who is 17 become voted in as SPL even if he does not have the proper rank, but he was allowed because he will be 18 soon and if he would of had enough time in scouting he would of been the proper rank. That is just one of the many issues in this troop.

 

They have many frustrated boys and adult leaders and they do not know what to do.

 

Thanks

[FScouter]

What is the proper rank for a senior patrol leader?

[Source]

Star or above OR maybe its 1st Class or above(This message has been edited by Source)

[scoutingagain]

Welcome Source. I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice here. How to Get Rid A Scoutmaster is always a hot topic. If you search on that in theses forums you'll probably find several threads dedicated to getting rid of SMs, Committee Chairs, Den Leaders Etc.

 

Bottom line is the Scoutmaster serves at the pleasure of the Charter Organization. If the Charter Organization Representative wants him, he stays, if the Charter Organization Rep doesn't want him, he goes. Assuming the the Charter Organizational Rep is fulfilling the desires of the Charter Organization Institutional Head. There's no voting, parental rights, commitee rights etc. Contrary to popular belief a Scout Troop is not a democracy at the adult level. As I've said before, it's more like the phone company. Think about how you would go about getting rid of your boss, especially if his/her boss(i.e. the COR) likes your boss. Not likely to happen.

 

But, based on what you've told us there is little to believe there is ample reason to remove the SM. There are no offical minimum requirements, age or rank wise to serve in the SPL position. If you have many frustrated boys and leaders, why? I assume they all joined the Troop voluntarily.

 

You'll need to provide a little more info. What's your position in the Troop?

 

SA

[evmori]

Oh I know this! There are no rank requirements for the position of SPL or any other position for that matter! Except JASM!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[emb021]

"There are no rank requirements for the position of SPL or any other position for that matter! Except JASM!"

 

There is no rank requirement for JASM (or any other position).

 

There IS an AGE requirement for JASM. I believe its 16.

 

Now, some troop DO set a minimum rank requirement for certain leadership positions. Nothing says they can't (AFAIK, National recognizes that this occures, they do not forbid it, but I think recommend it not happen).

 

 

[FScouter]

What is the point in holding an election if the results are not going to be allowed?

[Source]

The Scoutmaster has made the rules in t he troop and has then actually changed the rules he has set to suite what he thinks should be done at any given time. Which I guess since he is the SM he can do that.

 

I will have to say nothing so far has been a danger to anyone, just minor annoyances to many. Such as, The Guide to Safe Scouting says a driver for scout outings must be 18 years old and a driver can be 16 under certain conditions. Well this trip has some boys who would like to drive even if it is only them self. Well the SM put his foot down and said in his troop noone under 21 is allowed to drive to scout events.

 

It is just minor issues like that bother some adults and boys

[FScouter]

One of the consequences of replacing a volunteer with various quirks is the replacement volunteer will bring with him all his personal quirks.

[John-in-KC]

Source,

 

Welcome to the forums. I'm endorsing what scoutingagain says.

 

The bottom line is I see no youth protection violation, no advancement violation, no behavior in your post which warrants removing the SM.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, the G2SS says what you said it did. That said, we do not know what your Chartered Partner has said regarding youth driving. Chartered Partners can lay down more restrictive conditions.

 

Even with the most generous interpretation of policy, a young driver won't be supporting the Troop going on an ordinary weekend campout. G2SS says: AREA, REGIONAL, or NATIONAL Boy Scout event. Area is a specific geographic unit in BSA speak, as is region.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you are truly intent on wanting to remove the Scoutmaster,

 

The first course of action is to visit with the Scoutmaster away from the meeting hall, over a cup of coffee, and ask why he does the things he does. If, after that, you're really convinced you need to burn a bridge, because you WILL DO THAT in your relationship to this man, then visit with the Chartered Organization Representative and the Institutional Head of the Chartered Partner. They're the folks who hire and fire the Committee Chair and COR. BTW, I hope you're trained and prepared to take on the duties!

 

Have you considered the option of asking your Unit Commissioner or COR for some observations and some guidance?

[Beavah]

Yah, Hi Source! Welcome to da forums, eh?

 

ScoutingAgain gave yeh the lowdown on how SM's are appointed or removed.

 

But let's back up a minute.

 

You say that the troop has a rank requirement for SPL. That's perfectly OK, the Scoutmaster's Handbook allows it specifically. That's a unit-level rule, though, not a BSA rule.

 

There's a general principle that "those that make the rule can make the exceptions." Now it seems to me, that a 17 year old who is very capable, and who gets the approval of his fellow scouts in an election, but who just hasn't been with the troop long enough to make Eagle or Life or whatever the rank is... that might be an OK exception, eh?

 

Now, as for driving, you're right that there's an exception for youth members under 18 driving under some very limited circumstances. Da current wording limits it to "area, regional, or national events." That means not a troop campout, and not a council camporee. Only somethin' like a regional training or NOAC or such.

 

So my guess is your SM is on-the-money in that restriction, eh? It can be annoying and inconvenient. I'll be honest with you though, most troops have rules prohibiting the "youth member exception" even when the BSA would allow it. So your troop is part of the majority.

 

Lots of times we disagree with judgment calls. I'd encourage you to consider whether disagreeing with a judgment call is when you really want to remove someone from a position, eh? Judgment calls are hard, and anybody who makes 'em has to rely on the loyalty of other folks. Removing people is often best saved for deliberate acts and really bad behavior.

 

But hey, tell us some more about what's goin' on, eh! There might be some other ways to "skin the cat" so to speak.

 

Beavah

 

[Bob White]

In order to give a specific answer as to you what you can do we would need to understand your role in the unit. Are you a Scout, a parent, an assistant scoutmaster, a committee member? Each has a differne tavanue to take.

[Eamonn]

"just minor annoyances to many."

Wow!!

If all the people I have ever annoyed could boot me out?

I'd have been gone a long time ago!!

E.

[evmori]

Thanks for the correction emb021. You are correct about the JASM position.

 

 

[Source]

Well we have talked to the SM about several things such as him making a rank requirement for SPL and then when its time to vote on SPL making exceptions for certain boys, which you can understand makes other boys a little upset.

 

Anytime we have tried to talk to the SM we get the same answer. I am the SM and I make the final decision and that is my decision. If we try and talk to him then he takes it personal.

 

I have to admit he is NOT a bad SM in the sense he does not cause danger or worry to scouts. He does have a power issue, he is not long time scouter, but he does have 3 asst SMs that have over 30 years experience each inlcuding myself.

 

Basically it is a He started the troop, he is the SM, he is the ruler. I am not speaking in behalf of the other leaders as much as Im speaking for most of the boys who come to me and other leaders and complain or ask WHY ?????

 

I guess the best thing to do is try and talk to him again.