Is scouts running COH too much boy run?

[dan]

It took my son 3 COH to get his second class patch. After the meeting I ask the SM about it and he said he forgot, he apologized to my son and said he would get it at the the next COH, he did not get it than either, They gave him his patch at next COH. At this time I volunteered to take over the advancements, I was told it was under control. Two COH later when he was suppose to get his First Class bagde he was forgotten about. I asked the SM about it right than, he was given his First Class patch than, now 2 COH later he was called up and awarded the First Class patch, the SM still said everything was under control. I was really worried if he did make Eagle what would the chance be that his advancement or any other boys would be in order. He is now an Eagle and no question came up about the advancement paperwork, thank goodness. He was not happy about not getting his patches during the COH and getting one twice. But in the long run it really was not that much of an issue and he grew from it.

[Beavah]

Interestin' thread.

 

As I watch things, sometimes adults who aren't great at details get the Advancement Chair job. Poor choice, eh? That's a job that needs somebody who is a detail monster, who would fall down and die of shame if a boy got missed.

 

Kids are often better at it. Not da paperwork part, but remembering. For the AC, it's a volunteer task to squeeze into the free moments of his/her week. For the PL's and da boys, it's a much bigger deal. They also have the advantage of being there when things happen, rather than comin' in as a sorta visitor. And the advantage of those darn youthful brains that can remember stuff.

 

Then sometimes, the Scout Shop is just out of patches . Been to a few Courts of Honor where older boys were clippin' the badges off their sash or uniform to make sure they could give a newly advanced scout his patch properly!

 

Anyway, I've been to adult-run and youth-run COH's. Seen youth make mistakes and fumble through things some. Seen adults make mistakes and drone on some. Both can work just fine. Good adult ones are crisp and flashy. Good youth ones make me smile.

 

To be honest, though, I can't really recall a by-the-book one that is run by the Committee rather than the SM. Da conflict between the Advancement Requirements and the SM Handbook is a funny one, but there's a lot of those, eh? That's why we have youth and adult leaders to make decisions.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Beavah]

Anyway, I've been to adult-run and youth-run COH's. Seen youth make mistakes and fumble through things some. Seen adults make mistakes and drone on some. Both can work just fine. Good adult ones are crisp and flashy. Good youth ones make me smile.

 

To be honest, though, I can't really recall a by-the-book one that is run by the Committee rather than the SM. Da conflict between the Advancement Requirements and the SM Handbook is a funny one, but there's a lot of those, eh? That's why we have youth and adult leaders to make decisions.

 

Beavah

 

P.S. Anybody know what's up with da Edit Message function? Ain't workin' for me at the moment.

[Stosh]

"Beyond First Class, rank advancement requires the earning of Merit Badges and PORs. Hopefully the boys aren't signing off on MB requirements, so adults play a large part in advancement after FC."

 

Hmmm, is that because the adults are running the show or supporting the boys? I never said adults don't support a boy-led, patrol-method program, I just said they shouldn't run it. "Leading" a COH or "leading" anything is not what I call a good skill an adult scouter should have.

 

"For PORs, the SM or ASMs should be conducting Troop-level Leader training."

 

Sounds like good supporting, but not a directing/leading role.

 

"For each rank, a SM Conference and BOR is required, involving the SM and other adults."

 

Adult involvement is totally appropriate , but still not a directing/leading role.

 

"Service Projects for advancement require SM approval. So, nearly every requirement for advancement from Star through Eagle requires adult involvement."

 

Involvement yes, but not directing/leading. How much involvement does an orchestra conductor have with the actual sound produced by a concert? How much involvement does a coach have when he/she never plays in any games?

 

"The Patrol Method is one of 8 methods. Advancement, Adult Association, Personal Growth, Leadership Development all require adult leadership and involvement."

 

No, they only require adult involvement. They all require boy leadership to be successful. One can support all those methods with adult support, instruction and involvement but leave the leadership up to the boys.

 

"Many ways to skin a cat, as they say. The unanimous opinion of my mentors is COHs are ceremonies for the boys, conducted by the adults, as described by the BSA. If a troop has the boys run their COHs and everyone is happy, I don't see that as a problem. Saying the SM and other adults don't play a role in the success and advancement of a Scout is a bit much, however."

 

Kinda reminds me of the orchestra conductor. Makes no contribution to the music of the orchestra, but is always the first to take a bow.

 

If a PL is developing strong leadership as he works with his boys, develops teamwork, inspires and directs the boys, he is a functional PL. If the boys are successful the PL will be seen as successful as well. If everything that boy does is first approved by an adult, then by the SPL etc. and everyone else, then that boy only follows directions and never leads.

 

For every decision an adult makes, he/she takes away a leadership decision opportunity for the boys. Sorry, I stand by my opinion. There can never be too much boy-led, but I can cite you thousands of examples of adult-led in today's programs. For whom are we instilling leadership qualities? Every SM and adult leader in a troop should be systematially working themselves out of a job. If not, then their boys are not getting all the opportunity to lead they could be having. If boys are having difficulty doing their Eagle projects or even holding their troop program together it's not because they are strong leaders, it's because they haven't had the opportunity to learn what leaders do.

 

Should the adults instruct? Yep! Should the adults mentor? Yep! Should the adults inspire? Yep! Should the adults support? Yep! Should the adults give direction? Nope! Should the adults make decisions? Nope!

 

Like the old adage states: "If you aren't part of the solution, you must be part of the problem." The same holds true for our boys, "If they aren't leading, then they must be following." FOLLOW ME BOYS may have been a classic Hollywood movie about scouting, but it makes a terrible slogan to be put up on any scouter's wall.

 

Stosh

 

 

 

[dan]

Good youth ones make me smile.

 

Amen brother Beavah!

 

[bowhunt120]

We have gone through some development on this recently. In our troop, the emcee had become the "youngest scout working on Communications merit badge". You may recognize the "youngets scout" theme from a previous thread of mine...

 

As a result, a COH would take about 10 minutes. No ceremony for any rank. The boys would be called up, handed a baggie full of their awards while the emcee read a list he was handed by the Advancement Chair just before the meeting. Meeting adjourned. Cake and ice cream to follow.

 

I got tired of it. So, I proposed to the PLC that I would be the emcee for the next COH. They accepted. I spent about two hours finding and modifying appropriate ceremonies to recognize the boys for their achievements. Put together some props, told the SPL where and when I needed support from the Scouts. They were all ready that night, and performed their parts wonderfully.

 

The COH still only lasted about 30 minutes because there weren't many awards to hand out. However, after the meeting ended, the SPL spontaneously thanked me for making it special. I told him I would be very happy to help the Scouts learn how to do something just as special in future COH's.

 

We will see where this goes for the next COH. I look forward to helping the next "emcee" developing another set of special recognitions for his troop.

[gwd-scouter]

Yes, indeed, the youth run COHs make me smile, sometimes our audience laughs out loud. For the past two years, all of our COHs are run by the Scouts. Whether or not anyone needs the merit badge requirement, a Scout is selected (by the PLC) to prepare a script for the COH. Then, hopefully, they have a practice to make sure everyone knows his part. This does not always happen and makes for some funny moments.

 

At our most recent COH, my son was in charge of preparing the ceremony. Pulled some things off the Internet and put together a nice ceremony involving participation from all the Scouts. As SM, I was to stand unseen and recite lines that then prompted the Scouts to recite the Scout Oath, pausing in sections to light candles. Unfortunately, my son got them to only practice once at the last minute before the start of the COH and, yes, they messed up.

 

The presentation of rank awards is done by the Scouts. SPL presents the first to the highest rank earned, then that Scout presents to the next rank, and so on. The Troop Guide usually presents any Tenderfoot ranks, Totin or Fireman awards. I've always been asked to present any merit badges earned as the last part of the COH and then give a SM minute.

 

Our most recent COH was our last of the year and the one when our DE comes and does the Friends of Scouting presentation. The first thing he said before his pitch was that he always enjoyed coming to our Troop's COHs because our ceremonies were always different, got all the Scouts involved, and made him smile. The parents all seem to like them, too.

 

After a COH which doesn't go perfectly, I wait for the guys to ask me to take over the COHs because they are embarrassed when they mess up or it's too hard to plan themselves. Hasn't happened yet. Sure, I overhear them say afterwards that they need to plan better and practice for the next time, but that doesn't always happen.

 

We've worked hard to get our guys to take ownership of their Troop. I like to think that by making mistakes and seeing that the adults are not going to come charging in to take control, our Scouts really believe it's their Troop and have pride in their accomplishments.

 

[hotdesk]

For a few years now our Patrol Leader's Council and Senior Patrol Leader have had the responsiblity of planning the Court of Honor and carrying it out.

 

However, when I first joined the troop (10 years ago), the troop committee planned the Court of Honor. These Court of Honors turned out to be a more open Committee Meeting (with members making reports to parents) than a ceremony recongizing scouts.

 

But when our troop finally became boy led (6 years ago) we established a Patrol Leader's Council and a new Advancement Chairman was appointed by the Troop Committee (the pervious one became Scoutmaster). The Advancement Coordinator expected the Senior Patrol Leader and Assistant Senior Patrol Leader to help plan the COH and carry it out.

 

When our troop's fourth Scoutmaster, since I had been involved, took over he decided that the job should be open to the entire Patrol Leader's Council so the PLC, Advancement Coordinator, and Scoutmaster all worked together to plan the Court of Honor.

 

This has worked quite well. The COH have became shorter in time (cutting out Committee Reports) and have been more focused. During the Court of Honors the PLC selects a patrol to open and close the cermony, a scout to award the Outstanding Adult Award, a time for the adults to award the Outstanding Scout Award, let the Activities Coordinator recognize those that have attended outings since the last COH, and advancements are presented by the SPL, SM, and Adv. Chr. At the end of the meeting the SPL, SM, and CC all have a moment (called the SPL Moment, SM Moment, and CC Moment) to share their thoughts. They are asked to keep it brief and to the point.