Issues with the current SM

[jwall]

Hi Folks first time posting so please bare with me if I go off course. Our current Troop from what I have gathered from a few trusty sources is way off course, We have no boy leadership at all and the current SM runs things like a dictatorship. His way or no way. Well we (a few parents) tried to vote him out; but he is still there due to him and the committee chair playing a little dirty (calling in people on the committee who never show up to any meetings, CC plainly being on his side and not partial and voting, and ridiculing the parents/ASMs for their concerns etc...). So be it if thats how they want to be... My question to you is this. (this is actually my main gripe with things) Where can I find exact rules/regulations about being a SM. They have laid out guidelines for the ASM's and the boys about being ACTIVE but the SM says he doesnt have to follow them because they are just guidelines and no where in the BSA policy is that he has to Camp or show up to the activities as long as there are two registered adults he is is doing his "job". Or is this all a waste of time and should I and the others go look for a new troop

 

Thanks in advance

 

YIS

Eagle Class of 1992

[Gold Winger]

I guess the question that you really need to answer is, "Do I want to spend my son's Scouting career trying to rescue a broken troop?"

 

You can't really "vote out" a Scoutmaster. The SM works for the CC and the Charter Org. If you want to get rid of the SM, you need to get the Charter Org Rep involved but that may involve winding up with a new CC as well.

 

Maybe you should start by talking to your Unit Commssioner and the COR.

 

Your other possibility is to just start a new troop if you have enough youth that would leave with you to make it viable. If nearly everyone bailed on the current SM, he'd be the king of nothing.

 

As for what the SM is supposed to do, his primary function is to train the youth leaders. He doesn't need to go on campouts, hikes or anything else.

[jwall]

Thanks for your reply, Thing is hes not training or doing anything. Isnt our core program based on outdoor activities? I am just so frustrated. I agree with trying not to try and fix a broken troop. I have been with them for 9 months and it gets worse not better. As for starting a new troop how long and how hard is the process?

 

Thanks again

[GernBlansten]

Although I can't quote verse, I was under the impression that the SM was expected to attend most if not all outings. That's why I pulled my name from the pool of possible replacements for our current SM. Work keeps me away too much.

 

First off, if I was in your position, I'd buy the SM a cup of coffee and explain my concerns. That's just common courtesy to let him know how you feel.

Following that, I'd let him, the CC and COR know that I would be moving to another unit unless my concerns were appeased. Not a threat, but a heads up.

 

I would not create a mutiny of other scouts, but I would tell the others the reason for our leaving if they asked. I would not make any effort to destroy or disrupt the current troop.

 

I would then quietly transfer to another unit and get on with life.

 

The only reason to start a new unit is if you cannot find one that meets your needs. I wouldn't start one unless I was willing to give 150% of my time and have a deep passion for it. I've seen a few units where disgruntled parents leave in a huff to start their own units only to have them wither and die.

[Gold Winger]

The outdoor program is supposed to be the classroom for boys to learn leadership and self reliance. If the boys are leading, the SM really doesn't need to be there. As someone recently pointed out here, BP said that a good SM brings in experts on various subjects. So if you are SM and have a avid hiker as an ASM, you don't need to go hiking. One of the fundamentals of leadership is "Delegate."

 

As for starting a new unit. It's pretty easy or at least it is supposed to be. My details are sketchy and other will tell me where I'm wrong.

 

You need a Charter Organization, the group that owns the troop. They agree to provide you with a place to meet and not much else. A CO can be a church, temple, PTA, VFW, or the local hot rod club. Some units are self-chartered which means that a group of parents formed a non-profit for the sole purpose of chartering a troop. That can have it's own problems because quite often, the CC and the SM are the ones running the non-profit.

 

A Charter Organization can dictate how they want the troop to be run. If the COR or Institutional Head say that they want you to focus on hiking, that's what you do. If they say, "we expect the troop to clean the church every May," that's what you do. For better or for worse, most CO's have very little interaction with their units.

 

Also, in theory, the Charter Org Rep approves all adult leaders and selects the Committe Chair. The Committee Chair and the COR select the SM

 

After the Charter Org, you need at least three adults to sit on the Committee who have been approved by the COR. Four Committee Members are better because it takes three to run a Board of Review and the parent of the Scout being reviewed cannot sit on the BOR. Last but not least you need a volunteer to be Scoutmaster.

 

After you have an idea of who your Charter Org is going to be, contact your District Executive. He'll sit down with the IH, go over the paperwork, take the applications and checks and, suddenly, a new unit exists.

[jwall]

Well about the cup of coffee comment... I had a grin ear to ear as I heard from one ASM who has been here for years said "I took him out to a nice dinner told him my concerns and said you dont have the time to dedicate to the boys." He said the SM looked at him and said "No I will not step down and you cant make me" LOL so i guess it is best to leave quietly with the others who are upset at the way things are being run. Its a shame they will loose 9 + parents and ASMs and boys over this

 

Thanks everyone

 

 

 

[Gold Winger]

Gern brings up a good point. Disgruntled people from one unit don't always create a good new unit. I think that what happens is that they say, "Hey, we can do this better" but they don't have any experience running a unit and don't realize what sort of effort has to be put into running a unit.

 

"Sure, I said that I'd help but this is becoming a full time job" is a common cry. The people mean well but they don't want to put out the effort so everything falls apart and the unit dies.

 

The situaion may be different if you have experience Scouters. People that have been involved in fundraising, planning summer camp, camping trips, advancement, etc. along with some trained people who have served as ASM.

 

Try talking first.

[Eagledad]

Hi jwall. Is there another troop that you would consider?

 

Go out and get a SM Handbook to get better idea of what the BSA expects from the SM.

 

Unit Adult dynamics are interesting. It is hard to understand why we behave the way we do, and I've been amazed how blind we can be to our own distructiveness.

 

Without really knowing your unit or adults, I can say usually if the CC and SM think as one and the COR allows it and you can't live with the present situation, I think it is time to move on. I would, however, call your DE and District Committee Chairman and give them the facts. At the very least they can suggest other troops. But sometimes they can add a perspective to the situation that you did not know or had not considered.

 

Sorry for your problems. I hope you can get them worked out.

 

Barry

[Beavah]

Hi Jwall, welcome to da forums! Sorry to hear you're havin' difficulty in your troop.

 

My question would be "What does your son think?" Is he happy? Is he havin' a good time and learning?

 

Lots of times I've seen adults get their knickers all in a twist over personality disagreements that really don't have much to do with da kids. Sometimes Eagle Scout dads are da worst, because they want the troop their son is in to be the way their old troop was, eh?

 

Youth leadership is one method out of 8 in Scoutin'; some troops emphasize it more than others. And an experienced SM & CC can look like "dictators" to a group of first year parents who come in with a webelos mindset or a different vision... until they hang around a while and da next set of first year parents consider them to be dictators.

 

All that's by way of sayin' "take a deep breath, and stand down on the assault." As GW points out, as a parent you don't necessarily get a say in who da SM is, any more than you get a say in who the band director or varsity soccer coach is. Yeh only get a say in the example of a respectful, thoughtful, kind person yeh give your son. He'll follow your example when he has "issues" with teachers and coaches and "authority."

 

IMO, GernBlansten's got the right of it. Yeh sit with da SM like a friend over a cup of joe. Not just once, but a couple of times so he has a chance to think about things and make changes even if he disagrees durin' the conversation. Yeh listen as much as talk. Yeh praise the good things as much as address da things you see as challenges. And then yeh do the same with the CC. Perhaps even the COR/IH.

 

Unfortunately, it's probably too late for that in your case. Once yeh try to lead a revolt and vote the SM out you've burned all your bridges. Your decision at this point is either:

 

1) My son is doing fine and likes the troop. He stays in, and I apologize, stay away and stay quiet.

 

2) My son doesn't like the troop either, so we leave in favor of a new troop.

 

In answer to your specific question about "rules and regulations about being a SM", the real answer is "don't go there." But da technical answer is "they're right." The SM isn't required to go campin'. I know some fine older SM's who are past their high adventure days and had to stay out of the field for long stretches for health reasons, but their troop is active and they do an outstandin' job as friend and mentor and coordinator.

 

Best of luck with your and your son's decision!

 

Beavah

 

[jwall]

Thanks Beav.

Well as an ASM I find it pretty sad that he believes its a boy run troop, and no mentoring or guidance comes from the adults. I was reading Green Bar Bills site a link I found through here and we have the Gang mentality. We have lost at least 15 boys in 9 months because nothing is getting done correctly, we have no uniform code, patrol spirit is out the door, ASM's and parents who want to help and do things for the boys whatever it may be get pushed aside to a SM who says my way or no way. As for my boy being happy or the boys in general being happy I would say a 6. Its because their friends are there is the only reason I see. I dont want to jump ship. I have voiced concerns to the CC and SM numerous times before and they say MY WAY OR NO WAY. We will see.

 

As a wise man once said be the change you want to see in the world.

 

Jon

[Beavah]

We have lost at least 15 boys in 9 months because nothing is getting done correctly

 

Yah, this would concern me a bit. But then a group of new parents and ASMs who wanted to help and do things for the boys would concern me a bit in the other direction. Most experienced SM's put some brakes on that kind of "helpfulness."

 

I think it's telling that your son says it's a six out of ten and is fine with it. My guess is that's probably where things are at for most of the kids. Just a guess.

 

I think you're still back to #1 or #2, mate. But if yeh want to continue the conversation (please don't continue the fight!), your next step is the COR and the IH. Perhaps bring your unit commissioner, respectfully share your perspective, let 'em know you and some others may also be leaving. Encourage 'em to talk to the other side, and to make a decision. It's their program, eh? They can replace the CC and the SM with a flick of their Bic. If it hadn't gotten to a vote-em-out shoutin' match, they might also have finessed a nice retirement and transition .

 

Before they replace the CC and SM, though, they'll have to consider how many folks may leave because of that. The SM's and CC's kids for sure, and their friends. Maybe all the folks who voted to keep the SM, eh? That's pretty rough on those older lads especially. Probably lose 'em from Scouting.

 

Dat's the problem with these adult wars. Makes for hard "no good answer" choices for the Organization, and inevitably leaves a string of kid "bodies" on the floor.

 

Be understandin' of the CO's position, and polite. If yeh go that way, it's like askin' the superintendent to fire both the school principal and the football coach who've been there for years, because you don't like the way the football team is doin' things in your first year (while your son thinks it's on the upside of just fine).

 

And then be ready to choose #1 or #2, or to step up and be SM.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[jwall]

Thanks Beav,

 

I think we will stick it out for a few months and see if there is monumental change as he swears its in the works (supposedly for 2 years now) As for stepping up to the plate as SM (that is how this whole snafu began. Everyone supposedly wanted change but no one would step up. I put myself on the chopping block.) So ya fun times.

 

Jon

[local1400]

"We have lost at least 15 boys in 9 months....." Wow, that's an entire troop of 2 patrols! If you do end up forming a new unit jwall, make sure you call those 15 boys and let them know you'd love to have them!

[acco40]

To answer your question - The Scoutmaster Handbook. Requirements are be at least 21 years of age, be an American Citizen, agree to live by the Scout Oath & Law and be approved by the CO. There is no "go camping with the Scouts" requirements. However, one should be willing to be a role model (difficult if one is not present) and be willing to teach boys to be leaders.

 

I admit it, I'm biased for SMs I am one. :-)

 

I used to get a little testy when parents always (after refusing to voluteer to do anything) try to tell me how I should do something. Most have no idea or concept of the BSA program. I don't let it bother me any more.

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by acco40)

[jwall]

Im sorry about your lack of volunteers, we have tons. You can borrow some of ours if you need to. Just kidding. So since you are biased about SM's, let me ask you this; What would you consider being a role model to the boys then...

 

Jon