Removed Leaders Readmitted?

[OldEagle4Life]

A parent recently asked a question at our last troop comittee meeting that we were unable to answer so I thought I would put it here at the forums, since I think this would be a dodged question by our council execs.

 

The question basically came down to this:

There has been a lot of headline news over the country in the past few years of leaders being removed from thier positions of trust due to accusations and lawsuits over inappropriate behavior and actions both in and out of the scouting world.

If a leader is removed from his/her position in scouting by the Council/Region/National due to an accusation of inappropriate conduct with youth, would that leader ever be allowed back in if no legal charges say were ever filed. Perhaps because there was no physical evidence of a crime or someone was falsely accused of a crime?

 

This parent asked this question because there have been a few leaders in our regional area lately who have been accused, and all found guilty so far, of various crimes. She wanted to know what happens if a leader was not found guilty or prosecuted.

Would they ever be allowed back in?

 

Thanks

Old Eagle

[LongHaul]

Would they ever be allowed back in?

 Is there a rule against it? No, in fact as I understand it there is a procedure outlined for petitioning to be reinstated. Has National ever allowed an expelled volunteer to reinstate again is another question.

LH

[Gold Winger]

I'm sure that many have been re-instated, we just don't know about them. I've been told that when Johnny cries out, "Mr. Smith looked at my wee-wee!" the first reaction of BSA is to revoke membership. They then investigate and keep the results secret.

 

So it turns out that the bathroom door wasn't locked, Mr. Smith walked in and found Johnny on the can. He said, "oops, sorry!" and left but Johnny was traumatized and told his mother.

 

The problem that I've heard of in situations like this is that BSA's lightning fast reaction puts the mark of Cain on an innocent person and because of "privacy issues" the complaintant can never find out the results so she doesn't know what to think when Mr. Smith is re-instated.

[scoutingagain]

False accusations are a real possibility. YP rules are there just as much to protect adults as the youth.

 

GW's scenario is not so far fetched. Or to go a step further, it's not outside the realm of possiblity for a scout who's SM, has told him, "Practice this skill a bit more and come back next week. Once you've masterd the ability to (insert scout skill knowledge), we'll put you up for a BOR.", to be sufficiently frustrated or angry to go home and make up a plausible story or two about the SM, even get a couple of other scouts to corroborate the story. It's happened in other organizations.

 

So once the dust has settled and if there is a clear exoneration, I would see no reason not to reinstate the leader. However, in many cases there may be no clear exoneration or there is some remaining doubts, and the poor sole would be out of scouting for good. This has happened in other organizations as well.

 

SA

[FScouter]

Membership revocations are seriously considered and circumstances carefully investigated.

 

The first reaction to a reported YP incident is NOT to revoke membership.

 

BSA never ever revoked a person's membership because he walked in an unlocked bathroom door.

 

BSA never ever revoked a membership because some kid made up a false story.

 

To claim otherwise is alarmist sensationalism. Why to people say this stuff?

[scoutingagain]

No one has said they have, we're saying they could and it wouldn't suprise me if they have. The local papers in the past few years have had articles about Catholic Priests, Youth Coaches and Teachers that have been falsely accused. In the teacher's case, he had to leave a school system he had taught at for years, move his family and change professions, yet those that had accused him ultimately recanted their stories, but by then the damage had been done. No charges were ever filed.

 

I've sat on a jury where a criminal case got so far as to go to trial where it was clear from the testimony and cross examination the alleged youth victim had made up his story because he had a beef with a local old gentleman that lived alone. Ultimately the defendant in the case was found not guilty but only several years after the initital accusations had been made and his name dragged through the media.

 

Anyone getting involved with a youth organization should know and understand this is a potential risk and a very good reason to follow YP rules to protect themselves. I run into too many leaders that have the attitude, "I know I'm not a pervert, so I don't have to follow those rules. I mean who would believe I'd ever hurt or do anything to one of these kids. That would never happen here."

 

SA

[Gold Winger]

Because that's what my DE told me long ago. He said if there were allegations of sexual misconduct or abuse, membership was revoked to seperate the alleged offender from any situations where the situation could repeat itself. Not an exact quote but close enough.

[eagle90]

There is a policy in place to reinstate leaders whose membership was suspended or revoked. It is done through the regional office. Years ago we had a leader's membership revoked due to an alcohol problem, and after rehab, he was in the process of asking for reinstatement through the regional office. In the mean time, his son aged out of the program, so the reinstatement never happened.

[LongHaul]

FScouter,

Gotta disagree with you and I have first hand knowledge on this one. An allegation was made against a Leader I personally know. His registration was immediately canceled. BSA is not an investigatory agency and when charges of this type are filed with the police BSA separates the accused from it's membership. The charges were investigated, there was a trial because the plaintiff has as much a right to a day in court as the defendant. We all believed that the "State" knew it couold not win this case on the evidence but wanted to make the "situation" public and filed charges. The accused leader was found not guilty. BSA would not allow him to return. The process of reinstatement begins with the CO who must request reinstatement from Council. If Council accepts the petition they forward it to Region, if Region accepts it they forward it to National for the final decision. Anywhere along the chain it can be "tabled" and it stops right there. The end of my story is that some years later evidence surfaced that the Leader was in fact guilty and charges were again filed for offenses committed against other youth.

LH (This message has been edited by LongHaul)

[FScouter]

Now the story is changing. If an adult leader was arrested and charged by the district attorney with a sex crime against a boy, there's no question his membership would be revoked. But that's not the story that was related. BSA isn't going to immediately revoke the membership of a Scoutmaster because he deferred a board of review and a Scout responded by making up a story.

 

Again, a report of a YP incident does not result in immediate revocation of membership. AFTER the boy makes a complaint, AFTER SE investigates, AFTER the police are called in, AFTER the perp is arrested, AFTER the DA files formal charges, then the SE may revoke. Let's not jump the gun.

[Eamonn]

While this is maybe not the same sort of thing.

 

Some years back at a District Camporee, a leader "Mooned" a group of Boy Scouts.

The SE revoked his membership.

The leader had two sons in the program, so for as long as they were Scouts, he continued to help out where he could working as a kind of unofficial committee member.

The SM, the Troop Committee and the CO wanted to see if he could be reinstated?

They wrote to National HQ asking if he might be allowed to return.

The answer was no.

Eamonn.

[LongHaul]

FScouter,

    Remember I was there for this one. The accusations were made to the police. The police contacted the CO, the Co contacted the DE in an attempt to get the Leader some legal help. The CO, the boys in the unit, everyone that knew this leader were on his side. It was the accuser against 99% of the people involved. Before the DA filed charges and while the initial investigation was just beginning BSA revoked this mans membership. Almost everyone in the District complained and we were told BSA is not an investigatory agency and that policy requires separation of the adult from youth members. As soon as the allegations were made BSA wanted nothing to do with this man even though practically everyone was on his side. I do not understand how police convinced a judge to charge this man on the evidence that was presented in court. As I have said the man was indeed guilty but at the time there was no evidence of that. There were a large number of people vouching for this man and a large number of people willing to testify that the accuser was not a person that could be trusted. The accuser had a reputation of pointing the finger at others to cover his deeds. Things may well be different today but in this case the man was expelled on accusation only.

 LH

[Gold Winger]

A YP incident could be a Scouter driving his neigbor's son home without another person in the car. Without any allegations of misconduct, no one is going to do anything.

 

What we're saying is that at the slightest glimmer of an allegation of misconduct you get to hang your tan shirt in the closet and may never get to wear it again.

[FScouter]

An anecdote about an SE that made a knee-jerk hair-trigger decision does not a BSA policy make. I dont think we serve our adult leaders by going hysterical about what might happen. That just gets folks all paranoid about touching a kid or looking at a kid or reprimanding a kid or even being near a kid without 12 other adults of good character looking on as eye-witnesses.

[Gold Winger]

As the kids say, or used to say, "Whatev dude."