I got this Scouting thing all wrong

[hops_scout]

Reading Scouter.com, Meritbadge.net, and CollegeConfidential lately Ive found I must know very little about Scouting and its purpose. Im lost as to how that could have happened- Ive been active in the Boy Scouts of America for over 12 years. I wont claim to be genius and I dont believe I know everything there is to know about Scouts. But I didnt realize that becoming an Eagle Scout was the focus or the purpose of the Boy Scouts of America. Did you know that a reason for joining Scouts was directly related to winning scholarships? Or admission to an elite college? What about getting an automatic promotion in some branches of the United States military? I sit in my dorm room this afternoon dumbfounded.

 

I will willingly admit that I am not an Eagle Scout. To many (both inside and outside the organization) that puts me outside the elitist category when it comes to Scouts. To some, that means that I was not successful in Scouts and my troop was not successful in helping me. So with that in mind, that means I must be a failure. I can live with that- Ive failed before. I failed Calculus my senior year in high school, I have lost ballgames because I missed the ball, I have been denied numerous scholarships. So did I fail in the game of Scouting by not making Eagle?

People tell me and have told me before that I will regret my decision not to attain the rank of Eagle Scout. Many who read this will probably look at this post as me showing regret or maybe even jealousy toward those who can claim to be an Eagle Scout. Take it as you wish

 

I am here to show that it is indeed NOT a mission of the Boy Scouts of America for every Boy Scout to become an Eagle Scout. I truly wonder how many people realize that becoming an Eagle Scout is NOT included in the Mission Statement or Vision Statement of the Boy Scouts of America.

 

Mission Statement: The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Vision Statement: The Boy Scouts of America will prepare every eligible youth in America to become a responsible, participating citizen and leader who is guided by the Scout Oath and Law.

 

Since Eagle Scout is not mentioned in those statements, why is it that every example of a Scout be an Eagle Scout? One poster on MB.net mentions that many of the boys in a troop who are Eagle Scouts are not only successful in Scouts, but also in varsity athletics. At CollegeConfidential, a poster asks if it would be wise for a friends son to join Scouts in 8th grade so he can have Eagle Scout on his resume when it comes time to apply to selective colleges. Scouts are no longer about values, citizenship, and outdoors. It is now for becoming an Eagle Scout in order to be successful as a Scout and Eagle Scout is for the resume.

 

Boy was I wrong or what.

 

[Ohio_Scouter]

Hey hop_scout,

 

Chill out! Best I ever did in Scouts in the 1960s was make second class Scout, yet I consider myself pretty successful. I got a good education, a wonderful family, a great job, and I''m an Assistant Scoutmaster in BSA (adult leader--that''s even higher rank than Eagle Scout, don''t you know) in a great Troop who gets to work on all the exciting eagle stuff with a bunch of pretty cool Scouts and Scouters. We''ve been to Northern Tier, Seabase, Philmont, and numerous other high adventure trips. So don''t worry about rank; rank isn''t even mentioned in the Scout Oath, Law, and Motto. It''s your character that counts.

[John-in-KC]

Or what!!!

 

Frankly, you''ve hit a problem of modern America: The natural tendency of one generation to be more successful than its parents is no longer a sure thing. My generation, the boomers, will be more successful than the generation of the Depression era, but you of Generation Y? That''s not a sure thing.

 

My generation forgot about "for better, for worse, til death do us part." We''ve given your generation children of divorce.

 

My generation dealt with many issues not by doing right, but by going easy. How many celebrities do we see in rehab? How many young celebrities?

 

Christian or Jew, Buddhist or Muslim: We find a reason to dislike others because they have bedrock values.

 

Scouting? The Game with a Purpose? What will it deliver before my son is 16?

 

Your youthful idealism is butting up on the cynicism of the real world. Others have been there. How you choose to apply the values you learned in the Troop will determine how you present yourself to the outside world.

 

This is a specific forum, we talk with the language of folk who understand the program. Doubtless you have seen the Advancement thread about "Active." How we, the Scoutmasters and Committee Chairs and MBCs out there make that happen will determine how strong the Ideals Method actually gets instilled in the youth.

 

I hope all this almost stream of conciousness helps. Adulthood is not easy. Sometimes it is not fun either. We muddle through, one day at a time.

[troutmaster]

An interesting observation, and one that I, as an over 60 scouter have found myself thinking at times. Why is it that, even with the addition of a project, which was not required until 1965 or so, is the percentage of Eagles so much greater than way back? Is it easier, or is the focus in the wrong place in many troops?

 

Then I sit on another BOR for Eagle, and the young man shows us more often than not that, yes, they do reflect the ideals of the mission. Now, whether or not some can still tie a bowline, or orient a map, we do not ask. Hopefully they can. But the skills are simply a tool, and not the goal in the end. And I find that many have no idea that there are related perks to holding the badge.

 

Do some fall short? Perhaps they do not shine quite so brightly, but they met the basic requirements. Do some not ever reach the board? Still far more than do; yet many will look back in later years with fond memories and even realization that they indeed were made better individuals by the time spent.

 

I have been privileged to have a fairly good number of Eagles under my tenure; but I have had many more simply "good scouts" who stayed through high school to help younger scouts and be outdoors in the program we offer. Can we do better? Surely; that is always the case. Should we focus more on the purpose and less on Eagle. Some troops likely should; but most simply use it as one more carrot in the greater game.

 

JMHO

 

 

[frank10]

Hi Hops,

Our saying is that we run a farm not a mill. We provide a place to grow, it''s up to the boy how far he grows. We don''t expect to turn our identical Eagles.

 

 

[Its Me]

 

 

Great Post Hops.

 

Yea we focus too much on the end and too little on the journey.

[Beavah]

Yah, hops... one of da things you''ll learn about the adult world is that there are a lot of folks who just go in for the trappings. Whatever those trappings are - "elite" college, degrees, "status" clothing or the right gated housing community, titles, "prestigious" professional jobs, you name it.

 

They never learned that it''s not what you get, but what you give that counts. Sad for them. Sad for us, too, because in pursuin'' trappings they make us all weaker.

 

Even some decent parents who made good choices for themselves have a hard time keeping perspective when it comes to their kids. We all want our kids to "succeed". Most of us remember that "success" means "be happy using your own gifts and talents to do what good you can"... if we think about it. But it''s sooo easy to fall into the trap of wantin'' a kid to be the star on the team or the valedictorian or the Eagle Scout. Probably because parenting is da roughest job there is, and parents need some "positive feedback." So even when they know better they can go for the trappings.

 

So, your first assignment: Call up your parents and say "Thank You." Thank you for lovin'' me and teachin'' me to care about real stuff. Then call up or write your old Scouting leaders and do the same.

 

And then, if you want, every time someone posts something like what you described, jump in and in your most creative, lighthearted and kind voice say "Hey, Scouting was great for me, a big part of my life and who I am. But I sure am glad I didn''t make Eagle Scout... all that adult crap would have taken the fun out of it and I wouldn''t have learned half as much." Or whatever other fun, (more) gentle, and to the point thing yeh come up with.

 

Teach... the parents well...

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

>>I hope all this almost stream of conciousness helps. Adulthood is not easy. Sometimes it is not fun either. We muddle through, one day at a time.

[Gunny2862]

I hope this post started as tongue-in-cheek. No you don't have it wrong hops_scout.

 

I feel certain that you are also aware of the growth you made as a person during those twelve years. And how different your life might have been without Scouting.

 

Yes, as you examine Scouting from your new perspective you may find that there are aspects that you were not seeing from within but do not let that discourage you.

 

The key is that the program with its flaws still delivered for you and can still deliver for many more. And it delivered what it promised. Not Eagle but accomplishment, not prestige but development, not fluff and stuff but character. Be proud of your Scouting past and if you choose to engage, enjoy your Scouting future!

This Scoutmaster has NO Scouting background - and I'm trying to enjoy the journey as much as the boys - even with the recognition of some of the things you are now starting to see.

[mk9750]

I used to believe very strongly that no boy should become an Eagle Scout until he is older (16 seemed like a good age, to me, but I would have been flexible).

 

My stance has softened, but I will not let go of my believe that with very few exceptions, a boy is better off earning Eagle later in his Scouting career than earlier. I believe this because I have seen quite often the difference in levels of appreciation that younger Eagles and older Eagles have for the program. And in my experience, very few young Eagles EVER understand what the purpose of Scouting is, even years after they recieve their award. I'd say easily 80% - 85% of the guys who are 16 - 17 - 18 years old when they make Eagle do understand.

 

Along with that belief, I have come to understand that it an absolute farce to believe or to promote the idea that a Scout cannot get the most out of Scouting unless he becomes an Eagle Scout. That is hogwash. We have two boys who graduated out of our Troop at 18 who are the most remarkable young men I have known. Neither made Eagle Scout (1 Life and 1 Star). One of them, the Life Scout, went to 100% of the events and service projects our Troop did while he was there. As a senior in college now, I have seen him drive 7 hours to come home to help on a current Scout's Eagle project. I have seen him drive that same amount back home to attend the Eagle ceremony of the "little brother" he mentored while a Troop Guide, then drive back again over night to be at school for a service project a club he was involved in was doing the next day.

 

This guy is never going to wear an Eagle badge. However, in my mind, he IS an Eagle Scout. I have told Hops the same thing. They both got it. They both benefitted by the Aims and Methods of Scouting to become the best Scouts they could be. Not being recognized as an Eagle Scout is not a failure. Being recognized as a young man of character, a trusted friend, and a fine example of what Scouting helps produce is success.

 

I am proud to know the two guys from our Troop who did not make Eagle Scout. I am proud to know Hops. And I am proud to serve young men in the hope they will become just like these guys, whether or not they make Eagle Scout.

 

On the other side of the page, I do have to say, and I have also said this to Hops, that despite what he knows to be true that not making Eagle is not failure, during his time he will regret not making Eagle Scout. We have an ASM who sounds like he was very similiar to Hops - participated in so many activites, became quite the outdoorsman, is a tremendous resource for the guys in our Troop, and is a tremendous role model for me and every boy with whom he has contact. But he didn't make Eagle, either. Was having too much fun, got serious about a girl (now his wife!), felt too much obligation to his leadership role in his Troop to take the time to work on Eagle. He is both proud of what he has accomplished in Scouting, and also regrets not making more of an effort. I've heard similiar stories before.

 

My point is that you can be a successful Scout, get all of the right things out of the program, without making Eagle Scout. And if so, you should be proud. But just like you can score a 95% on a test and still be disapointed you didn't score 100%, you can still have regrets. I have lots of regrets in my life. most are trivial, especially now. But there are a few, that even as proud of the man I am, I wish I had done better at some things.

 

I think we all have regrets. I suspect if we don't, we didn't have any goals. That reminds me of Teddy Roosevelt's line about at least failing while daring greatly.

 

Oh, my! Talk about a stream of conscienceness!

 

Hops, be proud of who you are. don't let anyone else define what success for you should be. I KNOW you'll be fine.

 

Mark

[scoutingagain]

Some good insight and thought provocation in this thread.

 

All I can add as an adult who participated in scouting as a youth is, when I run into another adult for whom scouting was a big part of their youth, I don't ask, and rarely does the conversation turn to "what rank were you?". More often than not it revolves around, where did you camp? What was the best adventure you had? And dozens of the individual stories that usually start with " On one campout we...., or ... such and such happened... or in our troop we had this kid that ..could really cook,... was really funny... told great stories...went on to become...."

 

 

 

SA

[Bob T]

There are some troops in our area that are "Eagle mills." They run "merit badge mills" in which a Scout, for example, can wind up with a cooking merit badge over the course of two weekends without going outdoors except for the walk from the parking lot to the building. I (and our Scoutmaster) regard this as a corruption of the program. It is teaching the Scouts a poor lesson in integrity. As a merit badge counselor for several merit badges I have been invited (with attempted coercion) into participating in these merit badge mills and have refused. I consider it my responsibility to sign the little blue card only after the Scout has met the requirements as stated.

[AvidSM]

The focus on the Eagle rank by people outside scouting is very understandable. For some people, its probably the only rank they can name. Forget about them knowing the mission or vision of the BSA.

 

The Eagle rank is like the 500 pound gorilla in the room - it's very hard to ignore. I was taught in training that the goal for a Scoutmaster was to get all scouts to first class, not Eagle. Once they get to first class, everything else is gravy.

 

I scouts I have seen that made it to Eagle, including my son, made it through sheer perseverance. They had to make scouting a priority over everything else in the teenage lives - a difficult thing to do while in highschool.

 

I think some adults who look back with regret at not having made Eagle forget about everything else that was going on in their lives at the time. Their success in and out of scouting - in sports, school clubs and religious groups made them what they are today. The fact that they did not make Eagle does not make them a failure as a scout.

 

 

[packsaddle]

Hops, If you feel good about your accomplishments in life, that is all that counts. The fact that some others place value in superficial things should not deter you from seeking your place in life.

I can assure you with great confidence that universities place almost no specific value on the Eagle award when making admissions decisions - at least not compared with grades and SAT or ACT scores. After those factors, good admissions processes look at the details of all the activities and accomplishments of the applicants, especially any letters of support, and including all awards including the Eagle rank.

Don't let anyone tell you that an Eagle with lesser grades will be ranked higher than you for a college admission. If that happens, you don't want to attend there anyway.

I do understand that within the little closed society of scouting, Eagle is the epitome of existence for some members. You are about to go out into a much larger world, however. And there, while Eagle is a great thing, it isn't the be-all and end-all of either life or academics.

If you would like to bounce your college ideas or concerns off me, give me a PM sometime.

[Eamonn]

Hey Hopper,

You old rope dangler!

I know old age is catching up with me!

But it wasn't that long ago I was encouraging you to do what it took to become an Eagle Scout.

Yes, I remember what your project was going to be!!

I'll admit I was a little sad when you posted that you were no longer making becoming an Eagle Scout a goal.

 

Kinda strange!!

I wasn't disappointed in you.

I was disappointed for you.

Like it or not there are benefits in being an Eagle Scout.

 

I'm not sure if being an Eagle Scout is over rated or not?

I know I feel a twinge of something like anger, when people especially people I think should know better put Eagle Scout above other awards - Venturing Silver and Quartermaster and even Queen's Scout (How Dare They!!)

 

This thread is making me think about what my role as an adult leader in Scouting really is?

I know that I have a deep desire that all the youth I have anything to do with have: Fun, adventure, and the opportunity to face new and exciting challenges.

I'm not just talking about Boy Scouts, but all of our youth members from Cub Scouts to the Sea Scouts I now serve.

At times advancement is a tool that I use to get this done.

I think my goal for the youth I serve is that I want them to care.

Care for themselves.

Care for others.

Care for where they live.

A lot of what goes into becoming an Eagle Scout is about caring.

Of course, this doesn't mean that people who are not Eagle Scouts care any more or any less.

In a lot of ways, it's a shame that the US Army beat us with the "Be All That You Can Be In The Army". I wish we'd come up with "Be All That You Can Be In The BSA".

We are very fortunate in Scouting that we can offer a lot of different opportunities, activities and levels of involvement to help young people discover what they might want to be? And then pursue it.

Sometimes this might be a career; sometimes this might be an interest that could change. This is so very different than a lot of other youth organizations where you only get ahead if you are good at one specific activity. Sometimes as in my case, this interest can lie dormant for a while and then resurface. (I enjoyed cooking as a Scout, went on to teach history -Wasn't very good at it!! So returned to something I liked doing as a Scout.)

While at times, I know Im an old fuddy-duddy who tends to think that Scouts should be good or at least able to use what I see as Scouting Skills. Deep down I know that Scouting isnt about making or turning Boy Scouts into great outdoorsmen or Sea Scouts into great sailors. The outdoors is the method we employ to try and teach things like leadership and responsibility.

You say, I got this Scouting thing all wrong! Sadly, a lot of parents seem to have got the wrong idea about Scouting. Please dont tell anyone but parents get it wrong about a lot of things. A seven-year old seems to show talent playing soccer and in next to no time, parents are talking about what college has the best soccer program. A Lad and his Dad cross over from the Pack, Dad really doesnt understand Scouting. He does understand recognition. Merit Badges are not hard to understand Meet the requirements and get recognized. Nothing hard in that!

I hope we are doing more than just meeting merit badge requirements?

Im OK with whatever the person who becomes an Eagle Scout wants to think about his Eagle Scout! I know people who worked their tail off and are proud of what they accomplished. While others know in their hearts, that corners were cut and the effort they put in was minimal. To my way of thinking no matter, what it is their Eagle Scout Badge! The true worth of it is the worth what they place.

I know that Im starting to ramble! So, Ill quit while Im ahead.

There is an interview with Robert J. Mazzuca became the BSAs Chief Scout Executive Sept. 1 in Scouting Magazine. Near the end it has:

Scouting: Is it important that every Boy Scout become an Eagle Scout?

Mazzuca: If less than 4 percent of the boys in Scouting become Eagle Scouts, are we writing off the other 96 percent of the kids? No, they are getting a tremendous experience. The cherry on top of the sundae is the Eagle Scout, but the whole sundae is pretty good.

Ea.