Removing Scout from POR

[OldGrayOwl]

How do you remove a Scout that isn''t doing his duties in his Position of Responsibility?

[allangr1024]

OldGreyOwl,

 

Can you give more specifics of the case.

 

I would be very slow and deliberate about this. If a boy has a POR and he is not doing the job, then you have a teaching moment for him. If he is abusing his position at someones expense, there again is a teaching moment. If he is hurting someone, mayby you have something.

 

If this is an elected position, then you should be REEAALLLLLy slow to remove someone except for the most extreme of abuses.

 

Let us know.

 

If he has to be removed I would persuade him to resign and then anounce that he has resigned and give no reason to the boys.

 

 

[epalmer84]

If it is a matter of attendance, there is not much you can do but to try to contact him and see where the problem lies. If you do remove him for attendance, you owe him a phone call or a note.

 

If it is a performance issue, allangr1024 has the right idea. Counsel and review. Set goals. Try to find out what the problems are. If he feels he has too many schedule conflicts or other issues, then he should be the one to step down.

 

Ed

[evmori]

How? You tell him personally, send or give him a written notice he has been removed documenting when & why & keep a copy in the unit records. When sent via snail mail, a return receipt should be used.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[John-in-KC]

OFO,

 

I have to agree, we need the backstory.

 

I tend also to agree on the issue of simply not attending. That said, if it is an attendance issue, is the young man in hospital? Is he out of hospital, but on long term home care? It may be worth it to visit with him and his parents, and sort things out.

 

On performance, what training have you and other leaders provided him to assist in performance? I''d expect a Scribe to have close overwatch from the Troop Committee Secretary and Treasurer the first month or so of his tenure. I''d expect the Quartermaster to be given specific training on skills he doesn''t already have.

 

Are you really, truly, in your heart convinced this young man is one of the less than 2 per cent who just will not work out in this POR? Is there a POR he''s better suited to (was this assignment a mis-fit?)?

[FScouter]

"... he has been removed documenting when & why & keep a copy in the unit records. When sent via snail mail, a return receipt should be used."

Why document it?

Why keep a written record?

Why get a mail delivery receipt?

Why???

[Beavah]

Given what National currently advises, "The SM just does it."

 

That havin'' been said, most of da responders here dislike that change in guidance. We''d rather work with kids to improve, then sign off when they succeed even if it takes longer than 6 months.

 

Questions for self-reflection:

 

1) Was the boy appointed to this POR because he had real talent for it and interest in it. Or was he shoved in to fill a slot? A boy with weak writing skills ain''t goin'' to make a good Newsletter writer, and there''s nothing you''re going to do about that in the short term. A really shy lad isn''t going to succeed as a group leader/instructor in the short term either.

 

2) What have yeh done by way of teaching and coaching? Lots of times, boys who seem "lazy" about doin'' their duties really don''t have the skills to know where to begin. So like boys, they don''t ask for directions, they just blunder about or procrastinate . Have you told him how? Have you shown him how? Have you coached him actively as he made attempts? Have you seen him solo successfully without any help? Only if you''ve done all those things can you hold him accountable for choosing not to perform his duties.

 

3) Who appointed the lad in the first place? Seems like those that do the hiring need to be the ones who learn about making good hires - and learn about the responsibility for "firing." If da position was appointed by the SPL, I''d work with the SPL so that the SPL decides to make a change, and handles it himself. Great learning experience. If the position was elected (like PL), I''d encourage patrol members who complained to consider calling a new election, or at least introduce a blunt "Roses and Thorns" feedback session.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagledad]

Hi All

 

A lot depends on your response. Do you want the other scouts to learn from this scouts example? Do you want to just get rid of him so the PLC will perform better or up to adult expectations? Does the scout know he is not doing well?

 

Personally I look at the troop as experience for real life (real life scaled down to a boys size experience). First, I want the scout to make the decision to give him the experience of practicing habits of character. I want the PLC to see me and the SPL give the scout a lot of counseling before the scout makes that decisions so they can learn a method of trying to resolve a difficult situation of accountability. Finally I want the SPL making the announcement at a PLC meeting so that business matters are handled in proper places by the proper people. And I would guide the SPL on how to make that announcement in enough detail that the troop moves on without further discussion because sometimes more damage is done by not saying anything.

 

Everything about this situation should be a learning experience so that it can be done better the next time in each persons life. Accountability is a very difficult skill to develop for youth and adults. Not just in PORs, but in all behaviors. Holding other people accountable requires a large portion of patience and understanding along coupled with an equal portion of compassion.

 

Barry

 

[John-in-KC]

Barry,

 

I like what you had to say. I would add: Removal of a Scout from a POR has a potential 2d order consequence: Removal may well cause the Scout to walk away from Scouting. Is that what the young man and the Troop need and want?

 

That last question ought to be exceptionally tough to answer!

 

Make haste slowly!

[evmori]

Why document it?

Why keep a written record?

Why get a mail delivery receipt?

Why???

 

To have a record of it being done.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

>>Removal may well cause the Scout to walk away from Scouting. Is that what the young man and the Troop need and want?

[John-in-KC]

Barry,

 

Thanks, and I think that point about the SM sharing with parents is well said.

 

Yes, if approached with care and compassion, the SM can turn around a win-lose or even a lose-lose.

[OldGrayOwl]

I don''t have a situation like that just now, it just seemed like a good spot in the orginial thread to spin this one off to come up with a discussion thread on the subject.

[Hunt]

"Why document it?"

 

So you have a record of how long he was in the POR for advancement purposes.

[kb6jra]

This question came up at our recent Venture Crew meeting. One of the VP's was not attending or doing his job. The crew asked to replace his in his job. I asked that they communicate their issues with this person and ask him to step up or step back, it was his move to make as I saw it. He chose to step back and let someone else take a crack at it.

 

A few years ago we had an SPL in the troop that did a horrible job, and as far as we could tell it was purposefully done that way to insight the adults and his parents. He'd show up to the meetings with a hooded sweatshirt on, leave the hood up, with earphones in his ears, the earphones were connected to his cell phone, he was talking to his "friends" during the meeting when he was supposed to be leading. He was asked several times to step up to the plate. He just never did. When we made a move to remove him, that's when his parents came forward to defend him, blaming his attitude and problems on us adult leaders instead of what ever the real issues were.

 

Since this was the first time we'd had an issue like this, the PLC decided they'd take on the responsibility and would ask the scout to step down if it ever happened again. Not likely it would happen in their time, but nice that they see a problem and want to take care of it.