question about campouts in the US

[Slouchhat]

Hello,

since I''m based in Germany, I am not as well acquainted with your ways of handling things, so pardon me for asking stupid questions like this one:

 

It appears that when your troop goes to camp, not only the boys, SM and ASMs go, but a whole assortment of parents, etc., goes too.

Is that true?

How can the SM and ASMs work efficiently that way with a baggage train of more or less hovering parents on their backs? Maybe I''ve misinterpreted this, though.

 

Over here (and I''m not saying that we do it better, just differently) the parents hand over their kids to the scouting staff and receive them back after the camp is over. It is part of the program to let the kids grow up a bit away from the supervision of their parents.

 

best regards,

Volker

[Lisabob]

Hi Volker,

 

I think it depends a bit on the troop. My son''s troop has about 10 registered ASMs and an assortment of committee members, some of whom camp and some who do not. So on a given outing there are typically 6-10 adults and anywhere from 15-50 boys. Non-registered parents are allowed to come but usually do not (and if they do, they typically end up as an ASM pretty quickly). But we''re a big group and I think most troops have fewer involved adults to juggle.

 

In some respects I agree with you and I don''t like to see as many adults as boys - this isn''t an adult camping club we''re running here. However, I do think it is helpful for the adults to understand the program if they see it in action at a camp out, as long as you can keep them from hovering over their own kid. And I''ve noticed that we have a few ASMs and committee members who are guilty of that, to the point where if the adult can''t go, their boys don''t go either. Kind of a shame.

[anarchist]

Slouchhat,

 

(thought ouly us southerners wore slouch hats?)

 

Adult participation varies from troop to troop. In ours we have 47 registered scouts (''bout 42 really considered active) we alo have 12 registered and trained ASMs and 12 registered and trained Committee members-several of whom are also cross-trained as SM/ASMs. Most Camps we have 5-10 Adults. They are generally the transport for our scouts.

 

On any given "troop trip" (we have several patrol only weekends in our program)...we may be traveling two to three hours from home (one way). We need car/truck seats for 30-40 boys...Any way you slice it that could easily mean 10+ vehicles and it would be plain "stupid" to ask parents to travel 9-12 hours per weekend JUST as transport...so they stay, camp and make their own fun. Generally adults unless they are part of the active program for the weekend busy themselves with Adult camp/kitchen duty...like making the coffee disappear...We set a separate camp off to the side of the troop camp...scouts must request permission to enter the adult camp, and like-wise, most adults must request permission to enter scout camp sites (that alone keeps many adults out of the wat...who want to ask a kid for permission to enter or even cross over a camp site?)

 

Occaisionally committee members sit BORs for the scouts. We do not let parents "hover"...We find work for them and when in doubt; pull out the committee challenge "game" (which fits neatly behind my truck''s rear seat) and start training...

 

Last weekend we had a flat water canoe training exercise, fishing classes and open water rescue training for the troop. The newer boys were learning the facts of life in canoes...At the same time one of the Adult leaders was giving flat water canoe lessons to "newer" adults...After all, we have to train our own replacements to keep the troop healthy ...and not everyone knows which end of a canoe points down river!

 

Adults are resources, when needed they become part of the weekend plan; when not needed they drink coffee and make great meals. At our shakedown camps for the new scout patrols, (and the camp most "newbie" parents want to attend...cause they have separation issues), we don''t let them hover...the SM takes all new parents in camp off to the side (again adult campsite) and they do almost exactly what their kids do including planing meals, shopping trip exercises, knots, fire building, toten chip and buddy system training...its a hoot! And after that weekend, many parents really start to understand what the program is striving for.

 

On our truely "family camps" like our annual Asseteague Island encampment, we include family in the whole "shebang"! They can surf fish, do the nature hikes with the scouts, looking for Sika deer and wild ponies or just sit on the beach and watch "lazy" kids dig "miles of trenches"...and drink coffee....

Only at meal time and patrol time do the parents have to "not hover" and return to the adult camp...however we find most stop "hovering" when they see the beach...

 

A small troop might get away with two or three leaders per event but as the troop grows it becomes impractical...that is, if you want to offer more than the same ol''trips to your local campground...or you can keep the main part of your program centered around patrol only activities...then two adults works out fine...

 

hope it helps

Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

[Gunny2862]

Hi Volker, One question I have for you is whether your question is about summer camp or our monthly camp outs.

 

22 Registered Scouts - 10 Scouters and x number of parents.

For the summer camp we maintain at least two registered adults(Scouters) from the troop at the camp for the entire duration that we have any Scouts at the Camp Facility. That may be any combination of the SM, ASM''s, Committee Members or Registered Parents - In our case we require that Youth Protection Training(YPT) be completed as a minimum. We rarely have more than 3 adults from the troop at the camp except for the parents night activity during which we also tend to hold Board of Reviews and a Court of Honor for any rank advancements that have occurred during the week or since the last one. The camp staff is responsible of course for content delivery during the camp. And if we lose(sickness/injury/emergency at home)an adult from the troop and get down to one from the troop we either have to join with an adjacent troop until we have our two adults back or we are required by the camp to leave the camp if no other troops will "join" with us. (Numbers tend towards 15-20 Scouts and 2-4 Scouters)

 

Monthly campouts tend to require a little more parental support, to get anywhere we are allowed to camp requires vehicular travel and for us at least two and usually three, occasionally four vehicles and the at least four adults to drive them. For us at this moment that is tending towards any combination of the SM, ASM and CC plus one or more parents. The parent/s who goes with us does not have to be a registered member but WE do require YPT be completed before they can camp with us. We also let them know that the SPL is running the show until one of the Scouters steps in and that their job is to let the SPL do his, The SM and ASM do theirs and if the CC is along he will step in before they need to, so there is almost never going to be an opportunity where they will need to "Supervise" the boys - so they can just relax and sit around the adult camping area and have some coffee.

The only exception for us to this is when we do our annual "Family Camp" and then the parents are free to observe and interact as much as they want as long as they don''t keep their son from delivering his part of the program - demonstrations of what we do the rest of the year for those parents who don''t see it during the monthly campouts.(Numbers tend toward 12-15 Scouts and 3-4 Scouters/Parents)

 

So yes, we do have a few parents around but only rarely are they getting in the boys way if we are keeping them occupied.

 

And even though we are a smaller troop we find we are able to camp at more places including back-country sites than some of the larger troops in the area due to our Conservation Corps camp site restrictions - we actually have a much more active and varied program than some of the larger troops.

 

Does this help?(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[resqman]

You may also be confusing Cub Scouts with Boy Scouts. Cub Scouts (ages 7-10) requires parental involvment. Pack campouts often encourage family camping with not only parents but siblings. Boy Scouts (11-18) usually have troop leadership and enough parents to drive the boys to the campsite.

 

We have 40-50 registered boys and typically 30+ scouts attend campouts. We have at least 15 registered & trained ASM. We need at least 6-8 vehicles to move the people and equipment.

 

The adults act as a patrol and set up in area away from the scouts. There primay goal is to maintain safety. Parents who drive but are not registered are kept busy away from the scouts. Registered leaders guide older scouts so the scouts can lead the activities for the weekend.

[local1400]

Hi Slouch, as a Scout in the 80''s we never had a parent go with us but today many Mommies and Daddies tag along. This does interfere with the Scout method as at home the kids need to ask Ma and Pa permission for whatnot and while at camp they still think they need to INSTEAD of asking the PL or SPL. So sometimes it is not the parents fault but they are unable to tell Junior who he has to see because although you can tell the parents the Boy-led method, they are unable to comprehend it. It does get frustrating at times. On the other foot, it is usually the Scouts with severe emotional disabilities that have Mom or Dad along, so I commend those parents for giving up their time to ensure Jr. gets to do activities he otherwise wouldn''t.

[Slouchhat]

Hello,

thanks for being so patient in answering a seemingly stupid question.

I have lived in Oklahoma for a year in the mid-90s and yes, I understand that distances are a lot greater in the US and that transportation may be a big issue at times.

Over here, the troop can pretty much get anywhere by train and do the rest by bus, on foot, etc.

 

best regards,

Volker

who wears a slouch hat without being a Southerner or Australian

 

[CalicoPenn]

let''s not forget that there is also an element of training the Scouts on properly addressing adults when their parent(s) is in camp. In my units, there was never a "dad" or "mom" in camp. A call for "Dad!" always went unanswered (and yes, you do have to train the parents not to respond). On a campout, if I wanted to speak with my dad (if he was in attendance), it was Mr. CalicoPenn. No kid wants to call his parent by Mr. or Mrs. - helps prevent the Scout from relying too much on mom or dad too.

 

Calico

[kenk]

In our troop ...

 

1. Any adult to camps with the troop MUST have taken Youth Protection training.

 

2. We won''t forbid a parent from camping with the troop, though we''ll have them camp and eat with the adult leaders, not the Scouts.

 

3. In the nearly two years I''ve been an ASM with our small troop (18 Scouts), only once have we had a non-registered leader camp with the troop, and that was the father of a brand new Scout who had LOTS of problems with parent-separation. On the first campout he had to go home after the first night. His father joined us on the second weekend campout and things still didn''t go well. He left the troop soon after that.

 

We''ve had parents at summer camp when a Scout is going to be tapped into OA, but they stay at an entirely different area (family camp) or a nearby hotel - not with the troop.

 

Of course that SM, ASMs, and committee members are all parents too.

[anarchist]

Slouchhat,

 

Public transport in the U.S. is primarily a "city" thing. Outside of the cities, trains are mostly set up for freight (US policy makers deciding decades ago that we (citizens) couldn''t afford a top-notch passenger train service.

 

When I was a scout in the days of the wooly mammoth, our church supplied an old school bus which could carry the whole troop to events...it was great and we could even drop scouts off at their front doors on Sunday Afternoon...NOw days with Federal and state passenger vehicle drivers licenses, multiple insurance policies and disengaged Charter Organizations such a boon is nearly unheard of. Thusly parents must be involved... Hope we helped...

anarchist

[hotdesk]

In our troop all families are asked to serve in some role for the troop. Many become registered members of the committee or as an Assistant Scoutmaster. On the committee they run fundraiers, help with BORs, or serve as an officer. As an Assistant Scoutmaster they help deliever the program and therefore serve as advisors to the Patrol Leaders they serve as a Patrol Advisor for.

 

In our troop we have different levels of campouts and some require a strong adult participation. Therefore, parents (even some who are not registered) are asked to attend. It is because of our parents that we can offer the program that we do.

 

However, adults work in their own patrol. They are away from the scouts, except when they are performing the assignments they were originally asked to do. During our new scout campout we ask parents to attend so that they can learn, right from the start, that they are not to interefere with the Patrol Leaders.

 

Even our Scoutmaster and Assistant Scoutmasters are encouraged not to interefer until they are directly asked by a member of the Patrol Leader''s Council or the actions taken by these scout leaders contradict those guidelines established by Guide to Safe Scouting. Scouting''s job is to teach scout''s leadership skills. If we interfer or allow parents to interfer each time a problem, question, or concern arises we cannot complete Scouting''s job.

[Aquila]

We allow any parent who wants to go to do so. "Parent" ALWAYS trumps "Scoutmaster". Not too many of the moms go, but they''d be welcomed as long as they can let their boys be boys. You might be surprised at the different skills some parents bring. If they are looked upon AND TREATED as assets, that''s what they''ll be. It''s probably why we have such a high parent participation rate for everything else.

[Gunny2862]

Aquila, I concur about how you treat the parents,we are recovering from an, oh well, um, interesting CC who dominated portions of the program - turning off many parents. And left us without a functional Committee - only one of our current Committee members(the outgoing SM and new CC) understood that our "Parent Meetings" under the old administration were actually "Committee meetings" We are doing a LOT of training around here.

 

Our insistence on YPT to CAMP (any parent can drive with two person integrity)but to CAMP with the Troop YPT is required by the Troop IS a parent requested issue, that came about not in response to any issue but to prevent any issues during a period when we had a lot of in and out visitors. And it isn''t like it is an onerous burden on an incoming parent and should be a reassuring item. I liked it as a new parent.

 

We are also building a version of the Old Goat patrol. In addition to the many other fronts we are working on.