The role of Women in Scouting...then and now

[ozemu]

Lots of single parent families out there.

 

Maybe boys would learn respect for women by wathing male and female Scouters working together while modelling respect for eachother?

 

Fathers in those families (also in some two parent families that I know) not being useful role models.

[HiLo]

Lots of comments about role models here. I think it''s a bit irrelevant. Kids find roles models in many places - school, sport, family, TV, movies. And every kid''s experience will be different. Scouting cannot pretend to be providing just one gender of role model because of some perceived gap elsewhere. We really have no idea in most cases.

 

Great leaders and adventurous activities is what we should be providing. I don''t see how one''s gender affects that.

[Eagledad]

>>And every kid''''s experience will be different. Scouting cannot pretend to be providing just one gender of role model because of some perceived gap elsewhere. We really have no idea in most cases.

[BrentAllen]

"But don''''t abuse it. I was reading the example where the adult reminded the scout he didn''''t have his official BSA belt on. He felt that by reminding the boy, he had solve the problem. At no point was the boy allowed to make a choice. I like to look at it from the boys side. I will use extreems to make the point. A six foot 250 lb man stops the boy by touching his shoulder. The smaller boy looks up at this man who bends over to look at him. AT what point will the boy be honest in his opinion of the uniform. At what point did the big adult say something that would give the scout food for thought about the value of the uniform. When did the adult do or say something that would make the boy feel he just heard words of wisdom. I can''''t say he lost respect for the adult as a role model, but I can say he will not be in any hurry to seek out that adults guidance."

 

Excuse me, Barry, but you have no idea what you are talking about. In fact, you couldn''t be more wrong.

 

When my son''s den crossed over, there were 9 boys that joined the same Troop. As I have mentioned, a couple of us were not happy with their program, so we started a new Troop. 6 of the 9 left that large Troop to form the new one. Every one of them, including the boy mentioned above, said "I''m going where ever Mr. Allen goes." Those boys all made a huge decision to leave their friends at the other Troop. I didn''t twist any arms. They all followed because we have developed a level of trust and mutual respect. And I would argue the boy in the example has more respect for me because I showed I cared about him enough to ask, and that we set expectations and stick to them. I have found the boys respect those leaders who are firm and fair.

"Boys want to know what they can expect from you as their Scoutmaster, and what you expect from them. Strive to be consistent in word and action." Scoutmaster Handbook

He didn''t lose any respect for me, but I have lost respect for you thanks to your post. How you can make such broad assumptions based on so little information is simply astounding.

 

[Eagledad]

>>"Boys want to know what they can expect from you as their Scoutmaster, and what you expect from them. Strive to be consistent in word and action." Scoutmaster Handbook

He didn''''t lose any respect for me, but I have lost respect for you thanks to your post. How you can make such broad assumptions based on so little information is simply astounding.

[Jeffrey H]

Women have much to offer Scouting. If it were not for women stepping up to the plate, their sons would probably drop out of Scouting. Many can do the job as well or better than men when they are committed to the program.

 

It is interesting to note that I see far fewer women on Cub Scout campouts as I do men. I''m not drawing any conclusions here, but it does makes me wonder where the Cub women leaders are when their overall numbers in key leadership positions are far greater in Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts. Do the boys suffer in Packs when female Cub leaders will not take them on Campouts?

[BrentAllen]

"Interesting, I''''ve never felt I had your respect."

 

From the "Are they ALL important?" thread:

"Barry - you are employing the Method, and I applaud you."

 

I guess we see what we want to see.

[Lisabob]

Jeffrey - my take on your closing question is this: boys in Cub Scouts suffer when ANY of their leaders refuse to take them camping, regardless of their leaders'' genders. And for the record, when I was still a cub leader, it was me (yup, a woman) and another den leader (another woman) who insisted that the pack start camping at least once a year. Up until then, this mostly-male-led pack had never camped! And we were met with great resistance, mainly from a group of dads who didn''t think their kids were "ready" or who couldn''t be bothered to take the time away from work to spend a night camping with their own kids. And over-protective dads can be every bit as hard to handle as over-protective moms (at least when I tell another mom she needs to give her boy a little space she tends to take a moment to reflect on that - I''ve not had much luck getting cub scouts'' hover-dads to back off.)

 

Having said all of that...it seems to me that there are considerably more women involved in cub scouting who did not have any sort of scouting background as children. Many of the cub scouts'' dads were boy scouts once upon a time so they may be more comfortable with camping. And when we get to the troop level, most of the women who remain involved are people with prior outdoor experience or a strong interest in developing that experience. So it doesn''t surprise me that it is relatively harder for some cub leaders, who are often women, to pull off a pack camping experience, since they may not feel confident in their outdoor skills

 

And don''t tell me they should just go to training - I think you''ll agree that cub leader training does very, very little to prepare adult leaders to conduct a pack campout. BALOO is nice, sure, but if that''s your first intro to camping you''d better have some experienced folks along to help you out!

 

Based on your observation, I suggest that the "fix" is for local troops to PAY ATTENTION and build more ties to local packs. That way, if there''s a pack with leaders who are uncomfortable running pack campouts, they''ll have some better resources to draw upon - like maybe the leaders of local troops! This benefits everyone - cub leaders put on a better program with help from other knowledgeable adults, boys get to go camping, anxious parents begin to learn to let their kids try new things, and down the road, the troops get kids who aren''t afraid to sleep in a tent or use an outhouse.

[Pack212Scouter]

"It is interesting to note that I see far fewer women on Cub Scout campouts as I do men. I''''m not drawing any conclusions here, but it does makes me wonder where the Cub women leaders are when their overall numbers in key leadership positions are far greater in Cub Scouts than Boy Scouts. Do the boys suffer in Packs when female Cub leaders will not take them on Campouts?"

 

Ok... I hate to say this because while it is generalizing, it is not all inclusive. We have some excellent, adventurous women in our Pack, however the common comment that I hear from moms (about 75% of them)is "my idea of camping out is the Hilton." I am not deriding women, I just think that this perception of camping is why you do not see more women on Cub campouts.

[GernBlansten]

I too have heard the comment (from both sexes) that anything less than 400 thread count sheets is roughing it.

[Eagledad]

>>From the "Are they ALL important?" thread:

"Barry - you are employing the Method, and I applaud you."

 

I guess we see what we want to see.

[CrewMomma]

"however the common comment that I hear from moms (about 75% of them)is "my idea of camping out is the Hilton." I am not deriding women, I just think that this perception of camping is why you do not see more women on Cub camp outs."

 

Well another reason that they may not be out on camp outs over the weekend is who will take care of their other kids while they are gone?

 

 

 

 

[Pack212Scouter]

"Well another reason that they may not be out on camp outs over the weekend is who will take care of their other kids while they are gone?"

 

LOL....my wife and I must be true Scouting nuts...

 

We camp as a family at least four times a year (Once each with the Pack and my daughter's AHG troop, spring and fall). The campouts this last spring we went with my wife and I, my 7 year old son, 9 year old daughter, and 4 month old daughter...then we''ve been going again together this fall youngest daughter is now 9 months old. Everyone jokes that she get''s the "Youngest Camper Award" (This message has been edited by Pack212Scouter)

[Vicki]

>"my idea of camping out is the Hilton." I am not deriding women, I just think that this perception of camping is why you do not see more women on Cub campouts. >

 

and I will share with you that it''s one of the reasons my DH did Cubs and I do Boy Scouts. Men and women alike would make this comment (mostly women) and I would just weakly smile. Drove me crazy. Now my fellow female Boy scouters? I''m pleased to say I haven''t heard that comment in years!

 

BTW - our OA chapter just elected a female Adviser. Vigil honoree and one of the most dedicated scouters I know.

 

Vicki

"I used to be a Bear"

ASM-NYLT P&P

Brotherhood - WWW

 

[Vicki]

>Well another reason that they may not be out on camp outs over the weekend is who will take care of their other kids while they are gone? >

 

Uhhh, dad? This is part of that reverse sexism thing that also bugs me (not that I have a lot of things that bug me: