The role of Women in Scouting...then and now

[GernBlansten]

In the aerospace realm where I have carved out a living, its very difficult for a male to advance to upper management due to the efforts by the corporation to reverse the discrimination it practiced for decades. So now, many women are being elevated to high positions and those youth who are not accustomed to feminine authority figures will have a difficult time adjusting. So if Scouting is designed to prepare boys to be men, it certainly would seem appropriate for them experience female leadership early on.

[ozemu]

Boys need to observe both genders as adults. So do girls.

 

You live in a big country with a big population that is segmented into areas and sub cultures. Each place and group has particular ''problems'' and needs.

 

You might want a male from a particular cultural group to provide the role model needed. You might need some particular language speakers. You might need lots of men. Or you might need women in overt control.

 

The role of women (all adults really) in Scouting would be as varied as your local communities. I''d advocate for as few restrictions as possible to allow for that diversity.

[emb021]

"I''''ve seen similar issues come up with some of the LDS troops -- some stake presidents and bishops don''''t want women involved in Scouting except in a cooking/cleaning type role, while other stakes don''''t seem to have a problem with them serving as CC''''s, ASM''''s, etc. "

 

Well, not to justify it, but you need to understand that how the LDS uses Scouting is a little different. The LDS very much segregates their youth by gender. Thus they only want male leaders for their scout troop, their Venturing Crews are male-only, etc. I''ve heard that they seem to have issues with bringing their scout troop to events were there will be female leaders (this may vary from stake to stake, I assume), and its near impossible to get them to allow their Venturing Crews to associate with other crews in a council (due to the co-ed issue).

 

Now, if you''re dealing with a non-LDS troop, that''s a different matter.

 

[Aquila]

It''s not just LDS troops. Many people involved in Scouting believe it to be a male subculture. The beauty of Scouting is that there is a lot of local control. A troop whose members believe that older men provide the best role model for younger men is free to operate that way. And a troop whose members believe that boys need to explore their ''feminine side'' is free to operate that way.

[HiLo]

ozemu above advocates as few restrictions as possible. I can understand where he''s coming from because in our country, Australia, Scouting has been co-ed at all levels, youth and adult, for a couple of decades now.

 

It seems to work.

 

I''m a Group Leader, which is kind of head-honcho for Scouting in my township. I would hate to be restricted by gender when hunting down people for the various roles for which I have to find occupants.

[Pack212Scouter]

I''ve seen some excellent points made here. While I think it is important for boys to have good male role models, part of this is seeing those males relate in a positive way to the women around them. I have seen excellent ballance in there being women committee members and most especially a woman CC. They tend to balance out the male leaders, often giving a differing and possibly better viewpoints on things.

[gwd-scouter]

To those troops out there that prohibit women from serving in anything above a Committee position, congratulations on having enough willing and capable men around to be the SM and ASMs. In our troop I ask the question - where are the men? Yes, I am the dreaded female Scoutmaster. Coming up on three years in my tenure.

 

I can''t exactly place the year our troop started, but it''s somewhere between 1998 and 1999. Since its inception, we''ve had five Scoutmasters (I''m the fifth). That''s a lot of turnover. At three years, I am the longest serving. I am blessed to have two male ASMs who are wonderful leaders and serve the boys well.

 

A bit of history about our troop: My older son transferred to this troop in 2000 and at that time it was male dominated. A few ladies served on the Committee and I was asked to be the secretary while my husband was asked to be an ASM. I admit I didn''t take it very well. A few months in I began helping as Advancement Chair. I found out quickly that I was not welcome on any campouts, although I was asked to drive - you know drive ''em up, drop ''em off, come back and get ''em later. A couple of years of this and I was ready to leave. Husband was getting very discouraged too as he was tired of all the adult pontificating at meetings, adult planning for everything, adult cooking, cleaning, setting up camp, etc. etc. Older son was elected SPL, but was never allowed to do anything even though he took initiative with his ASPL.

 

SMs changed every couple of years which brings us to when younger son joined the troop in 2004, now on its fourth SM. Troop adult leadership had dropped tremendously and all - the SM, ASMs and committee folks - were ready to quit. Their sons had all Eagled and they were done. Nice to find this out just a couple of months after we joined with younger son. So the search began for the new SM. Husband was tapped but he had to decline because of his work schedule. Other Dad whose son joined at the same time ours did simply was not interested. That left me. Months went by as the Committee debated back and forth. Finally, with the reality that the troop would otherwise fold, I was asked to be the SM.

 

Upon making the announcement, all our former leadership left, along with three of our Scouts - one fairly new Scout and two Life Scouts. One of those Life Scouts was the son of one of our former SMs and stated when finding out that a female was going to be the new SM that a girl couldn''t take them to camp, especially summer camp - they''d be laughed at.

 

So, there I was. Husband as an ASM, other new Dad agreed to be an ASM and me. No Committee left, although the former members agreed to help out until we could get a new committee formed. Add to that the fact that I was not yet trained, husband had not finished his training and the other Dad wasn''t trained. About a year after becoming SM, the ASM Dad decided he didn''t have the time to go on all out outings and wanted to become a Committee member. That left my husband and me only. Fortunately, our son recruited a friend whose Dad is very into camping and hiking and agreed to be an ASM. He''s the 2nd ASM I mentioned above.

 

I continue to try to recruit for leadership positions in our Troop, which leads me to my question - where are the men? True, a lot of our guys are being raised by single Moms, but not all of them. I have asked every Dad of every boy in our Troop to step up and help out and none are willing. As it is now, we''ve just formed another new Troop Committee and it is all female.

 

But we''ve come a long way in three years. We may still be a small troop, with only nine guys. But we''re active.

 

Was contacted recently by two Webelos Den Leaders from two different packs. They want to come to our troop when they crossover. Both are led by very strong male Den Leaders and both have indicated they want to be ASMs. I know both these men from roundtable and from having a couple of our Scouts serve as Den Chiefs. (Note: As you may have read, I''ve been down this road before with Webelos Dens coming to visit but ultimately joining another troop, so I''m not counting any chickens yet.)

 

They say they really like the way our troop is run, with the boys making decisions about what to do and where to go. I hinted at the possibility of one of them stepping into the SM position and both said that while that is certainly a possibility, they wouldn''t want to right away and want to spend a couple of years learning the ropes - yep, from a female!

 

No, ours is not the ideal situation, but we''re making it work. The guys don''t seem to have any problem having a female SM, and as far as I can tell don''t act any differently around me than they do with our male ASMs. In fact, I sometimes feel invisible. Going camping with a bunch of teenaged boys, I know that what I see and hear from time-to-time would most likely not be said or done in front of their Moms. :-)

 

 

[John-in-KC]

gwd,

 

You''ve hit a major issue of Scouting these days: Where are folks who will lead the youth?

 

If you talk soccer, football, or baseball, you need a couple of experts, and the other parents can drive/watch/cheer. The "athletic association" takes care of the administration. Scouting almost demands a certain activity level from its families. This was true 40 years ago, I believe it still true today.

 

Yesterday I was talking with a friend; he''s the CM of a startup Pack elsewhere in my city. His bride is the CC. They have active Tiger and Wolf dens, but had to close their Bear and Webelo dens: No one, man or woman, would step up to leadership.

 

So, to those who regret, lament, or decry women serving the program of Scouting, I ask: What have you done to get more men serving your Pack, Troop, or Crew?

[Slouchhat]

Hello,

I''m looking for two ASMs (one male, one female) and will be asking the lady whom I''d like to have on the crew tonight. She''s outdoor oriented and mother of a decent boy so she fits the bill.

Will let you know if I can get us a new ASM for the girls today or not.

 

best regards,

Volker

[Eagledad]

>>So if Scouting is designed to prepare boys to be men, it certainly would seem appropriate for them experience female leadership early on.

[CrewMomma]

As a reference:

" "I''''''''ve seen similar issues come up with some of the LDS troops -- some stake presidents and bishops don''''''''t want women involved in Scouting except in a cooking/cleaning type role, while other stakes don''''''''t seem to have a problem with them serving as CC''''''''s, ASM''''''''s, etc. "

 

Well, not to justify it, but you need to understand that how the LDS uses Scouting is a little different. The LDS very much segregates their youth by gender. Thus they only want male leaders for their scout troop, their Venturing Crews are male-only, etc. I''''ve heard that they seem to have issues with bringing their scout troop to events were there will be female leaders (this may vary from stake to stake, I assume), and its near impossible to get them to allow their Venturing Crews to associate with other crews in a council (due to the co-ed issue).

 

Now, if you''''re dealing with a non-LDS troop, that''''s a different matter. "

 

I was at a ROundtable this week where I was the only female Venturing Crew leader participating and the other 6 people in the breakout room were LDS leaders wondering how to get a Crew started. The conversation turned to how different the programs were for LDS groups VS community groups. I have to give kudo''s to the district trainer who was sitting in our meeting that night, he made the following statement:

 

"There isn''t two different programs, Venturing is one program."

 

In that statement, he completely brought the group back to center and acknowledging that regardless of the CO, Venturing is the same program through out.

 

But this post is off of the original topic.. back on track now guys..

[FScouter]

Boys learn to become men from their father and from other male role models. While a woman Scoutmaster may be a good thing and can teach boys a lot about a lot of things, a woman cannot even come close to teaching a boy about becoming a man the way a man can.

 

If boys are to learn respect for women and how to interact with women, it takes a man to teach them, not a woman. Boys learn how to respect women not from a woman, but from watching how their father and other male role models demonstrate respect for women.

[CrewMomma]

Fscouter

 

I agree and disagree with you. Boys should learn how to respect other people by the example that they are given by their leaders. Regardless if the leader if male or female.

 

Respect also comes from understanding that the person that is leading you knows what they are doing. I don''t expect my youth to respect me out of obligation, but to respect me as someone that they can trust to steer them in the right direction.

 

How their role models treat other people, is how they will treat other people - regardless of their gender.

[GernBlansten]

"a woman cannot even come close to teaching a boy about becoming a man the way a man can."

 

I''m not sure I agree or disagree with you. Too general a comment. Perhaps you can regale us with specific teachings only a man can accomplish. I just want to make sure I''m covered with my son.

[Vicki]

>If boys are to learn respect for women and how to interact with women, it takes a man to teach them, not a woman. Boys learn how to respect women not from a woman, but from watching how their father and other male role models demonstrate respect for women. >

 

I''ll be so glad when we all realize that people learn to respect and interact with people from other people. Men need to learn to respect other men, too. So do they learn that from women?

 

Vicki

"I just want the human race to end in a tie" Eliz. Barrett Browning