Mutiny

[Joe MacDoaks]

Some of my scouts have come to me and asked if they can pick a new SPL. They say the current SPL is too bossy. I have told them that they picked the SPL, not me, and now they have to live with the decision. They hold elections in Febuary. Our old SM used to pick the SPL and the current SPL is the first one that was elected by the troop.

 

Any advice?

[SR540Beaver]

First, you did the right thing in telling them that they made their bed and have to lay in it. I''m willing to bet that the boys who voted him into office will put much more thought into who they elect next and think hard about how they will lead if they run.

 

Second, mentor the SPL and teach him the leadership skills he needs to be an effective leader and get back in the good graces of his peers.

[Ohio_Scouter]

Hi Joe,

 

SR540Beaver said it all. This will be a great lesson learned for the Scouts, too. The best ones, learned the hard way, are seldom forgotten.

[Joe MacDoaks]

I''ve been working with all of the scouts on leadership. My scouts seem to think that scouts is the military. I keep hearing "you have to do what I said I''m a higher rank" I tell them that if a scout isn''t in your patrol and you aren''t in a position of authority over that scout you can''t tell him what to do. You can make a suggestion and you can let his PL, the SPL, or me know.

 

We are having our first non troop method campout. All of the patrols will be cooking for themselves. This should be interesting.

[theysawyoucomin']

Cooking seems to bring out the best and worst in a team.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

Just don''t add a small paddle in a canoe to the trip....oh wait, that was another post.

 

Keep up the good work Joe.

[CalicoPenn]

Sounds like you''re making the right steps, and your answer that they chose their SPL is a good one. Its important that the SPL and the PLC get trained as well - not just training by the Troop but try to take advantage of the training offered by your District and Council - getting the perspectives of Leaders in different units is invaluable.

 

Might I make a small suggestion? The requirements for holding POR for rank advancement is 6 months for Eagle. Why not structure your SPL election around the rank requirment. Hold SPL elections twice a year - every 6 months instead of once per year. Patrols should hold elections for PL every six months too. There is nothing that would prevent an SPL from being nominated and running for a second 6 month term.

 

Calico

[Eagledad]

>>Second, mentor the SPL and teach him the leadership skills he needs to be an effective leader and get back in the good graces of his peers.

[John-in-KC]

This goes all the way back to "what does active mean?"

 

Mentor, train, mentor, coach, train more... This is the Scoutmasters first responsibility. I hope unit JLT (old curriculum) or unit NYLT (new curriculum) was given the SPL, ASPL, and PLC immediately after election.

 

Yes, there is a hierarchy; in any organization there''s a hierarchy. At the end of the day, though, the PLC is supposed to reach a consensus. Over the years, I''ve liked the idea that the SPL votes to break a tie, and that is how the PLC gives him deference.

 

At the SM level, revisit what responsibilities the SPL has. If he''s got a lot on his plate, look at how to share that with his ASPLs. Look at how the Quartermaster and Scribe can be self-managing / functioning.

 

Joe, finally, I''d tell your PLC, in a meeting, and the Troop as a whole, in a SM Minute: A Boy Scout Troop is not, and never was, a platoon or company of soldiers. It''s not the military. If it were, they''d be fined healthy amounts for being out of uniform, for being late, for backtalking a leader. They don''t want to be junior military. Trust me.

[EagleInKY]

I agree with those that said you don''t remove him, you coach him. This is a lesson for both the scouts and the SPL. We have one patrol that floats back and forth between picking a "popular" PL and an "organized" PL. The "popular" PL is fun, laid back, doesn''t tell them to do anything. Consequently, the patrol is always a mess when he''s in charge. The "organized" PL is a little bossy, but has his stuff together. When he''s in charge they know what''s going on, they arrive on time, they have what they need on campouts, etc... They constantly flip back and forth.

 

As for the "what if he refuses to change" question, there could be a point where removing a scout from office is the appropriate thing to do. Refusing to be a servant leader to the scouts as SPL is certainly something that could warrant that, if it is an outright refusal (as compared to willing, but unable).

[Gunny2862]

No kidding, forget about fines, Incentive Physical Training can be fun - but isn''t a part of Scouting.

 

But back to the original question. Is he doing something WRONG, if so you may choose to impeach/remove him; if not mentor train advise and teach a lesson to him -about leadership, and to the Scouts about the responsibility of evaluating whom you choose to elect. And that post election you don''t get to follow only the leaders you want to follow - but the one who was elected until the next election. (NOT political commentary).

[Beavah]

Now this is an interestin'' question, eh?

 

Generally, I too agree with SR540.

 

But then we have that much-debated, somewhat odd advice from National Advancement, which says that a boy who isn''t doing the job of SPL should be removed before serving for a full 6 months.

 

Seems like under that kind of system, da kids are right, eh? They should have the ability to remove the SPL forthwith.

 

Or, to paraphrase an old document "And whenever any government becomes destructive of its just ends, it is the right of the People to Alter or to Abolish it."

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

Two comments, inspired by Beavah and EagleinKY:

 

If the SPL refuses to change, explicitly, and becomes a hindrance to the Troop, then I think the SM owes the Troop a chance for them to demonstrate their rebellion. In a different thread, we talked about how Adults don''t get to vote "No Confidence" in the CC and CM. The youth may well be justified in asking for a vote of no confidence in their own SPL. Just because we do not use explicit votes of confidence in US parliamentary procedure doesn''t mean they do not exist.

 

If the SPL, in performance (or non-performance) of his office becomes a hazard to safety of another Scout, especially physically but perhaps emotionally, then the SM has to weigh the consequences of immediate intervention.

[Joe MacDoaks]

The only time I would remove a boy from a leadership position is if he was a danger to other kids safety. In this case I have a bossy scout that likes to be lazy. He makes sure everthing is done but he doesn''t do anything himself. He likes to sleep in and he doesn''t help with doing any physical work. He says that doing his duty roster and other items is enough. I don''t agree with him and I have told him that privately. I don''t try to undermine him and I have told him that some other scouts feel that he doesn''t carry his weight. He disagrees. I have found this to be a common condition when counseling employees at work. It''s very hard to judge your own performance. Everyone thinks they are doing a good job.

 

As a veteran I know you can''t run a troop like a military unit. Even though my scout troop as a child had all military leadership, it was not run as a military unit. And I am happy it wasn''t.

 

I am not sure about picking leaders every six months. When do you pick them? I wouldn''t want to have new leaders before summer when we are engaged in most of our activities. I would feel that the boys that were not a PL or SPL during the summer would have missed an opportunity to be a leader over more activity. I really believe a year is a good length of time.

 

I really feel that leaving the SPL in place until his term is up is the best thing to do. I do think I will ecourage the PL''s and ASPL to give him some polite feedback on how they think he is doing.

[John-in-KC]

Joe,

 

I just spun off a thread on troop election cycles to help give you information on what other folk do

 

Reading your follow-up, it sounds like the biggest two risks of leaving the SPL in place are defections in membership, and a blanket party for the SPL. You may have to consider taking action if Scouts decide to transfer from your Troop because of your SPL. It''s hard to recharter a Troop without 5 youth

[awesome1_in_cc]

We have elections every 6 months but we also have an unoffical "procedure" in place for the Scouts to remove their elected leaders. We stress heavily to all elected leaders that the people who elected you to office can also remove you using the "procedure" we have outlined.

 

In my mind, it is important that the elected Scouts learn that they are the "voice" for and responsible for those who elected them. A lesson lost on most of our political leaders but I won''t go there.

 

So far we have never had any Scout ask to start the removal process which has been in place for a year or so.

 

Just my 2 cents!!