Are they ALL important?

[evmori]

>>For anti-uniform folks, try sending your kid to football with his jersey and pads, but a motorcycle helmet and blue jeans instead. See what happens next.

[John-in-KC]

Gonzo said to Barry...

>>For anti-uniform folks, try sending your kid to football with his jersey and pads, but a motorcycle helmet and blue jeans instead. See what happens next.

[Gonzo1]

Ed,

I rarely disagree with you. I agree that a scout uniform isn''t required, but I think it''s more or less ''expected''. Afterall, it''s required at WB, and BSA is a ''uniformed'' organization.

 

If patrols are properly uniformed and a scout comes along who isn''t, the others will get him in line, especially if there is some occaisional reward.

 

I''m tired of hearing about cost of uniform parts. I don''t like $40 for pants, but I also don''t like all the little extras that I spend extr money for eith.

 

Barry,

I think the ''anti-uniform'' folks are those who don''t care if a scout is uniformed or not. Whenever someone tells me (or posts here) that they wear ''look alike'' pants, that person doesn''t really fool anybody, look alikes don''t look alike. They''re a different color, different cut, different fabric, they''re just not the same.

 

Go to ebay, buy use pants. do a google serch for used boy scout uniforms, you''ll find alot.

 

On the other hand, I agree with Hunt, it may not be the most ''important'' method, but I think it is important. When scouts show up without all the correct uniform parts, they hust aren''t ''uni-form'', they''re multi-form, khaki here, blue there, green there, black somewhere else.

 

If you shell out the buck for his soccer uniform, football uniform, karate uniform, etc, drop the $40 on the conter and get the pants, better yet, get the switchback, it''s like 2 for 1.

[evmori]

Gonzo1,

Expected and required are completely different. If a baseball player doesn''t wear his uniform, he can''t play. It is required. If a Scout doesn''t wear his uniform, he can still play. It is expected, not required.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Gonzo1]

Ed,

I agree.

 

[local1400]

Hunt, we tell all-boys and adults, that FULL uniform is expected. And I will come out and say that I am PRO-UNIFORM 100% including Scout outerwear (jackets!). If it is not official BSA uniform or insignia, you will not find it on me. The only exception of course is underdraws and footwear, and the footwear is tasteful.

[Hunt]

I asked earlier what troops did that increased the wearing of full uniforms. Unless I missed something, the answers were that adults told the boys to wear full uniforms, and they did so. I have to question whether this is much of a testimonial for the uniform method as currently delivered. Does anybody have an account of how improved uniforming was a byproduct of other forces in the troop, such as improved esprit among the boys, a boy leader who was committed to the uniform method, etc.?

[Eamonn]

It seems a little odd that this thread has become yet another Uniform discussion.

Not that anyone is asking!

But if they were to ask.

I think the most abused and most misunderstood method is the Advancement method.

Seems to me that in a lot of units the Eagle Count seems to have become more important than the Vision and Mission and at times is more important than the Scouting Ideals.

I happen to think that this misunderstanding has a lot to do with why Scouts quit Scouting!

We know that only about 5% of the Scouts will make Eagle Scout rank. So when a Lad finds out that this much hyped goal that was set for him (Not set by the Scout) isn''t easy and more than lightly isn''t going to happen he starts to feel that staying in, is just a waste of time.

There are some young Scouts who are very focused and I don''t have a problem with young Scouts who have met the requirements and have earned the rank of Eagle Scout, becoming Eagle Scouts.

I''m a little unsure what a Troop does with a 13 year old Eagle Scout? What holds his attention and interest till he is 18?

Making the Advancement method work as it should seems to me to be a lot harder than making the uniform method work.

Ea.

 

[Kudu]

Are they ALL Important? Yes!

 

Listed in the order of their importance to the cancer that feeds upon Scouting:

 

Leadership Development: The most destructive force in BSA Scouting and the primary source of Wood Badge Logic: "If the best Patrol Leader in the entire world led a Patrol in the Troop that I serve, my duty would be to encourage him to step down in order to give less talented Scouts a chance. This is because my primary job as a Scouter is to teach Leadership Skills to everybody." Wood Badge Logic requires regular Troop Elections to provide constant source of fresh meat for these Wood Badgers to train. The most obvious symptom of Leadership Development''s destructive effect on the Patrol Method is the emergence of the Troop Method: Weak Patrol Leaders require Senior Patrol Leaders and Troop Guides. It should be noted that the hippies who introduced Leadership Development in 1972 removed the Uniform as one of the official Methods of Scouting for nine years and demoted it to status as one of the "other program elements" with the same importance as "Competition" and "Activities Among Troops." See:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/index.htm

 

Advancement: The second most destructive force in BSA Scouting. Scouting was invented to be the opposite of classroom education, an outdoor activity where boys learn Citizenship by testing their mastery of Scout Law against the forces of nature under the leadership of the most competent Patrol Leader. The BSA reversed that and turned Citizenship into classroom Merit Badges which require the Troop Method for efficiency. Summer camp is Advancement summer school complete with lecture instruction, class schedules, and cafeteria food.

 

Outdoor Method: The emphasis on Advancement has required the castration of required Scout Journeys from the Outdoor Method so that any indoor boy can earn Eagle Scout without EVER walking into the woods with a pack on his back. The only required Scout Journey that remains in the BSA is the Second Class five mile hike, the sissy version of the eight mile Second Class Journey in which two Tenderfoot Scouts undertake an expedition laid out for them by the Scoutmaster without the company of any adults, Junior Leaders, or other Scouts. It could be argued that the restoration of the rugged and true Outdoor Method would solve ALL of the other problems of BSA Scouting!

 

Patrol Method: The Patrol Method has become the Troop Method.

 

The Ideals: A few years ago the BSA issued an official fatwa stating that Duty to God is NOT AN IDEAL, it is an obligation. Perhaps it is because the BSA represents the Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson wing of the Republican Party, that Christian conservatives so rigidly defend the Eight Methods'' destruction of Scouting against all critics. Of course all of us who disagree but remain members of the BSA are like John McCain: we have all made our separate peace with the party members he once described as the agents of intolerance.

 

The Uniform: As an Indoor Method, the Uniform is a symbol of the great cancer upon Scouting. But the introduction of the Switchbacks and the well-designed breathable "Action Shirt" with its wicking capabilities and mesh inserts ended my eight year boycott. Now I hold regular Uniform Inspections: Scouts with properly placed patches earn my congratulations. If they also wear the ugly official Scout pants or a generic olive-drab nylon zip-offs I give them a piece of candy. If they wear the Switchbacks I give them two pieces of candy.

 

Association with Adults: Boys want to be men, not "adults." My Scouts are OK with women who can teach them how to jump off a cliff or paddle in white water, but they are dead-set against female leaders who "act like somebody''s mom." Although such mommies have caused a few boys to quit, one adult male bully caused more than half of our Troop to quit in one stroke and forced me back out of Scoutmaster retirement. I suspect that the BSA changed "Adult Male Association" to "Adult Association" in 1990 not because anyone in Irving Texas believes that discrimination is wrong, but because American men no longer step up to volunteerism in sufficient numbers. That can not be blamed on the BSA.

 

Personal Growth: Last and least, Personal Growth is a bad Method only because it indicates that nobody in the BSA would ever dare to think that the so-called "Three Aims & Eight Methods of Scouting" is just a theory. Personal Growth is an Aim, not a Method, but we have too many "Aims" already. There is no Scouting activity that encourages Personal Growth that could not be grouped under one of the other Methods. The hippies added "Personal Growth" in 1972 to correspond with some progressive education theory of their day. It is intended to be measured with a complex set of questions designed to gauge Personal Growth against the six aims of Scouting (including the new "Mental, Moral, and Emotional" subsets of Fitness), see:

 

http://inquiry.net/adult/methods/6th.htm

 

To answer your question, "Are they ALL important?": For the most part only the real Six Methods as practiced prior to 1972 are important:

 

The Scout Way: (1. A Game, NOT a Science);

Patrol Method: (2. Scout Patrol & 3. Boy Leadership);

Men in Scouting: (4. Scoutmaster, 5. Committee & Council)

Activities: (6. Adventure in the Out-of-Doors & 7. Advancement);

Uniform: (8. Scout Uniform);

Ideals & Service: ( 9. Scout Law, 10. Oath, Service, Good Turns)

 

Yours in Traditional Scouting,

 

Kudu

 

(This message has been edited by Kudu)