Scout must sell popcorn to participate?

[moxieman]

Up in my neck of the Maine Wilderness, if a unit tried to charge 3 figures for dues, it would fold so fast you wouldn''t have time to blink as it folded.

 

Most units up this way don''t charge "dues", period, except for the national registration fee. They do fundraising instead as needed. Want to go on a trip, but your folks can''t afford it? Then participate in the upcoming (insert type of fundraiser here) fundraiser.

 

Most of our units have bi-laws. In those bi-laws, most require the scout to participate in at least one unit fundraiser a year (whether it''s the popcorn sale, a spaghetti supper, bottle drive, car wash or whatever), but they don''t require that scout to raise a certain minimum amount at said fundraiser.

 

[insanescouter]

My troop does not charge dues at all. We ude fundraisers, etc to pay for events. We do charge for campouts - depending on cost of campsite and patrol food this is usually less then $5 and never over $10 for a weekend campout.

 

I do not have a problem with small dues at a Pack level to cover den project costs such as craft supplies. When I was a Webelos den leader I had dues at like $5 a month and worked with parents with more then one son in the den.

 

Hope my wacky 2 cents was useful...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[Venividi]

I echo the need for a backstory. It will help to understand the history of how this troop arrived at requiring sales of popcorn. For all anyone knows, sometime in the past the troop (or pack?) had experienced extreme lack of participation in fundraisers, this was they way that was agreed upon by those involved at the time on how to address the problem.

 

As far as dues and what is reasonable, it would be hard to make any type of comparison between dues charged by different troops without knowing total budget and how that budget is funded.

Some troops split all campout costs among those attending. Some troops pay for campout costs, with scouts paying for patrol food. Some troops pay for driver''s gas out of troop funds. In some troops gas is not reimbursed. Some troops establish an equipment fund to replace equipment when needed. Some troops dont consider the cost of replacement equipment until something needs to be replaced.

 

So all-in-all, it depends.

 

 

[insanescouter]

Excellent point Venividi ... One thing I try to say normally but don''t get it to come out right is...

 

We are here to help the boys. Every place and every unit is different. What matters is that we give every boy the opportunity to take advantage of what Scouting has to offer, it does not matter how we make this happen (as long as its moral and with in BSA guidelines). What works for one unit will not work for another. I included need to slow down and seek the wisdom of what is working for others and share what is working for us.

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[Gonzo1]

Our troop has dues of $80 per year, paid quarterly.

Popcorn sales is optional, but the 35% that comes back to the troop goes into the boy''s account. he san spend it on camp or anything scout related - new uniforms, boots, compass, etc.

[evmori]

And what happens if you don''t sell enough? Can''t go on any trips? Get tossed in popcorn jail?

 

I would find another unit. This one sounds like it''s run by those folks who call you at dinner time asking for money.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr]

I''ll bet they''re all sworn members of the Uniform Police, too.

 

Unlike Moximan''s troop, we don''t have "bi-laws"...we have "hetero-laws". Sorry, couldn''t let that one go! ;-)

[Gunny2862]

We don''t charge dues.

We don''t require that you do a fundraising activity. We don''t even require Popcorn sales - but if you don''t sell then you don''t get to watch when the highest selling Scout shaves my head if the troop doubles last years sales.

 

We do REQUEST that Popcorn be sold and ENCOURAGE participation in our one BIG fundraiser so that we don''t have to do more fundraisers or charge dues. And we get participation because we show the parents the difference between our 2-3 week push and the cost we would have to charge if we didn''t do fundraisers.

 

We DO have Scout Accounts and if the money isn''t there then unless you have an identified fiscal shortfall(paperwork required) you need to come off of the hip with the cash; whether it''s for camping fees(Troop pays usage fees, canoes , campground etc., Scouts pay food, $5-10 per weekend) or Summer Camp fees or HA trips.

 

If we didn''t do any fundraising our fees would be more than I can afford to do the same things we do now, and much higher than $100.00 annually.

 

That said, the coercive nature of hersheygirls story needs some explanation, maybe they have a reason but it comes off as kind of harsh.

 

[acco40]

Dues are like taxes, one can't comment on the amount without knowing what they are used for. Some municipalities have high tax rates but provide "free" garbage collection, road plowing, police protection, fire service, etc. Others have low taxes and nickel and dime the citizens for every service. So, without knowing what dues are used for, $100 could be highway robbery or a great bargain.

 

In our troop we have quarterly dues of $25. That pays for all advancement costs (MBs, rank patches, equipment, trailer costs, trailer storage costs, etc.). We charge for outings to just meet the expense from that outing (no added charges for equipment depreciation for example). We also give the opportunity to all to participate in the popcorn fundraiser. What we have as mandatory is a set amount, currently $40 per year, to contribute to the troop. The Scouts may do this by selling popcorn or simply donate the money to the troop. Some would much rather open their wallet than spend the effort selling corn. To each his own. One of the goal of Scouts is to teach the boys fiscal responsibility. Having them participate by earning or raising the money themselves is a good way to do that.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[Eamonn]

The few days off must have coddled my brain!!

Please let me know if I have this right.

Dues are $100.00 a year? (About $2.00 a week. That doesn''t seem out of line. Depending on what you get for your $2.00!)

 

If you sell $400.00 worth of Popcorn? You don''t have to pay the $100.00?

That sounds fair!!

The bit that doesn''t seem to make sense is the $750.00.

Take away the $400.00 for dues. ($350.00)

So I''m guessing this Spring Trip has a price tag of about $100.00.

Must be one heck of a trip!

 

As we all know there is no such thing as a free lunch.

The money needed to operate and offer a worthwhile program does have to come from somewhere.

To be honest I as a parent didn''t like sales.

Mainly because as OJ got older it seemed everyone was selling something (High Schools seem to have at least five sales going on at all times!!) I''d much sooner work with OJ and write the check (He owed the Bank Of Dad half -Which he had to find a way of coming up with, sometimes working for Dads Employment Agency, sometimes using free money from Birthdays and the like.)

The Quarterdeck of the Ship came up with $5.00 a month dues.

This pays for the Registration fees, patches and that sort of stuff.

We do have hoagie sales. We get a permit from the borough and a few times a year sell them on the street.

The Quarterdeck decides what happens to the money we make on a case by case basis. Some of it is used to repair boats, some is used to offset the cost of activities by having the money placed in the Scouts accounts.

Big amounts and donations are placed in the Ship''s Account to help pay for new equipment and for emergencies, with the approval of the Quarterdeck. (They as a rule will follow my lead!)

What did I get wrong??

Eamonn

(The QD choose not to sell popcorn!!)

 

[EagleInKY]

I agree with the comment that you can''t compare dues & fees between units unless you understand what it provides. For example, our annual dues are $40 and monthly dues are $5 (totaling $100 for the year). Each activity is charged out at cost - usually around $12 a weekend, but it can range from $5 to $100 depending upon the activity. We provide all patrol & troop equipment (tents, stoves, lanterns, propane, etc.). The activity fees cover costs of patrol food.

 

We''ve been struggling to get scouts to participate in "troop fundraisers" (where all proceeds go to the troop). Most will gladly write you a check, but don''t ask them to help the troop earn money to buy equipment. Consequently, we''re talking about raising our annual dues next year and not do any "Troop Fundraisers", but only do fund raisers that contribute to the scout''s individual account.

[Venividi]

EagleinKY,

 

I think that the issue (problem?) that you describe of scouts and families being willing to participate in fundraisers that benefit the individual, but not those that benefit the troop as a whole is becoming more widespead in recent years. Less Citizenship than there used to be.

Reading your posts over the years, I gather that you have a well run troop and really strive to use the methods to achieve the aims of scouting. Which leads me to some interesting questions: Have you had SM conferences to discuss lack of participation in troop fundraisers with those scouts that dont participate; that exhibit a "whats in it for me" attitude? If you have, and a scout continues to demonstrate "whats in it for me", would you consider telling a scout that he is not ready for advancement when he comes to you for signoff on rank advancement to Star or Life?

Not trying here to say whether to do so or not is the best way; just want to raise a discussion on the potential of judicious use of the advancement method as an incentive to achieve the aim of citizenship.

 

Venividi

[John-in-KC]

Venividi,

 

I think what you have to say is valid, but I think it has to go out at two levels: It should, properly, go through the Scouts. It should also, properly, go through the parents, since it seems these days allowances are not that, they are fees for chores (that''s what I''m hearing from other parents in my neck of the woods).

 

The approach needs to be "Together Everybody Achieves More (TEAM)" The goal should be "Everyone who fully participates will share in a troopwide payment of summercamp fees. The more we sell, the less each pays."

 

TC!! gets to define "full participation." PLC can nominate a number, but in my Council, 10 days of LT Camp will be $255 (boy OR leader) in 2008. 30 boys is 7500 bux, and that''s real money. As a former CC, I''d say 210 in sales (about 70 to the Troop in popcorn, about 95 to the Troop in Xmas wreaths) would be "full participation." You want the bar high enough that a superb seller does not feel slighted by someone just meeting the minimum.

 

The object is to get kids and parents to commit to the fundraising.

 

For those who choose not to participate at all, or participate at less than the floor, they get what they get off their fee.

 

With this approach, Scout and parent have 3 ways to participate in the fundraiser.

 

BTW, fundraising is an ideal time to put the kids through Salesmanship MB.

[Venividi]

JohninKY,

 

I find it interesting that the solution to the problem of lack of participation in troop fundraisers is to drop the fundraisers and increase dues. I do think it is a pragmatic approach; and as you say, families would rather write a check than participate in fundraisers that dont benefit them personally. I dont know what the answer is; perhaps it is a social shift that isnt worth fighting, and time and attention is more effectively spent elsewhere.

 

Venividi

[John-in-KC]

Venividi,

 

Part of the problem lies with all the added expenses of getting a child out the door these days. Pop Warner, Scouting, Band, HS teams, Job''s Daughters, MDA, ACS, ABC-123, you name it, someone else wants your money for fundraising. That doesn''t even count God''s firstfruits call on your income.

 

My manager at my office finally put a blunt stop to candy boxes, kids coming in "in uniform" to sell popcorn, wreaths, GS cookies, ad infinitum, flyers on the bulletin board, whatever form it took: Fundraising at the office is a dischargable offense.

 

My kid, your kids, someone elses'' kids all live in two blocks of each other. The neighborhoods are saturated.

 

I see the POV of parents who cut to the chase and just cut a check. They assess the time value of the products as not worth the effort, they''d rather cut the check.