Hazing, bullies and duty rosters....Oh my!

[Kudu]

A Scout is Friendly, Courteous, Kind, and Cheerful.

 

But not everyone at Scout Camp acts like a Scout because camp is where boys learn how to be Scouts! This includes Patrol Leaders.

 

I''m with John-in-KC on this one, I would not assume that "they would have left anyway."

 

I hate to admit it, by my best Patrol Leaders sometimes act like boys! They can be blunt, bossy, and lacking any empathy what-so-ever. That''s how boys get things done if left to their own devices, and their behavior is usually modeled after the adults in their lives.

 

It doesn''t hurt for the Scoutmaster to keep an eye on the group dynamics within each Patrol from a distance, quietly mentor his Patrol Leaders, and likewise reward them when he catches them being Friendly, Courteous, Kind, or Cheerful to their Scouts.

 

Believe it or not, new Scouts do not always do a good job of washing the dishes and a Patrol Leader will have to make them wash them again if he did not keep a close eye on them the first time through.

 

Likewise, most new Scouts take forever to cook and cannot recognize firewood on a forest floor even when they trip over it. New Scouts simply do not work as efficiently and therefore actually do end up spending more time working than the older Scouts. And the more clueless they are, the more likely it is that they will not treated very politely in the process.

 

When a campout with new Scouts does not run very smoothly I use my turn at "Thorns and Roses" to tell the new Scouts that they have survived the "test by fire" of their first or second campout and may have been worked harder than everyone else to see if they "have what it takes" to be a real Scout. But now they are "full members of the Troop" and if in the future a Scout thinks that he is not being treated fairly he should talk to his SPL and if that does not work, come talk to me.

 

Usually when a Scout quits, he is gone for good. We bribe Scouts with candy if they can get ex-Scouts to sell us back their Scout shirt for $5. One time a Scout returned with a ex-Scout in tow and asked if he could still get the candy for the shirt "if the Scout who quit is still inside it."

 

So now I announce that if they can get the Scout to join again, we will double the bribe (for both Scouts) and we usually throw in a "recruiter patch" to boot.

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Gern, I hear your frustration. You asked if it is typical and I think the answer is that, while not too common, it isn''t unheard of either for the reasons Kudu spells out.

 

Let me add this: I wish parents would take it with a grain of salt when their kid gets home from camp and says "I didn''t like it and this or that awful thing happened." I''ve noticed with my own child that a shower, a hot meal, and an hour of sleep do wonders for his assessment of the event in question. I''m not saying ignore it if they have negative comments, but sometimes I''ve noticed the younger guys are so overwhelmed (and over tired) that they just need a little time to process things before acting on their experiences.

[John-in-KC]

Gern,

 

Please do not get me wrong, it''s not all your fault.

 

Those classes at wood badge about listening and processing info? They''re coming in useful far more often.

 

OK, certain parents nod North and South pre-camp, and go broken and stupid when their kids bellyache. Let''s find ways to deal with that:

 

Phone Call:

"Hi Mrs Jones, I''m Billy, Jack''s Patrol Leader. I will be responsible for making sure Jack cleans his tent every day and does his share of the chores. He''s a first year camper, so he may have to learn that I''m the first judge of clean, Dave our SPL is second, and Mr Blansten our Scoutmaster is third. I hope you''re ok with this, are you?"

 

Antoher technique is for PL (or TG) to have this same conversation before camp.

 

When Mrs Jones calls the SM after camp, SM can say "Did Billy White, Jack''s PL, talk with you? What part did you not understand?"

 

Funny. Granted we are a dining hall camp, but by Eagle Son''s 5th summer camp- Warrior year in Mic-o-Say - he knew his KP times, could help out a first year, and still be done faster than most.

[Venividi]

I would like to add a cautionary note to John in KC''s suggestion of PL''s calling parents. From personal experience, I caution to not underestimate the ability of some parents to be VERY unreasonable. There are some parents that you will absolutely will not want to have a scout call, and you may not know in advance which ones will behave rudely to a scout on the phone. Our one and only experience at having an SPL call a parent in a situation revealed a personality in a parent that I would not have imagined was possible.

 

 

 

[anarchist]

PLs call parents??

 

New and very young PLs (new scout patrol) usually do not have the maturity or confidence to explain the "ropes" of patrol activities, expectations and duty rosters...particularly when dealing with a problem scout and his problem parents without "backup".

 

Adults should deal with adults whenever possible if only to avoid having a promising Young scout leader "walked over" and demoralized by "bully" adults.

 

Our program starts indoctrinating parents during their sons webelos years. We distribute our troop info sheets at every oportunity. We treat every scout/parent as a potential recruit and bury them in paper for their last year in Webelos...its only paper and the troop policy, scouting aims, patrol method and our expectations are not state secrets. Many times our new scout parents have been given the complete NSP package three or four times by the time they crossover.

 

We have a shakedown campout for NSPs (only-no older patrols) just the NSPs, troop leaders/guides/instructors soon after crossover (usually within two weeks) and by the time of summer camp the new Scouts have been to two or three other troop campsouts, a District Camporee and their own Patrol only camp.

 

We actively encourage new parents to camp with us during the shakedown. A trained ASM (or sometimes the SM "cut-out" the NSP parents and literally spends the weekend training them as if they were new scouts (they "become" a patrol (like woodbadge) and are expected to at least dabble in everything their sons across the camp are being taught...and they participate in a duty roster formulation including how to do dishes and "police" their campsite. They work up a practice menu, food/shopping list, learn to sharpen their pocket knives, tie knots...just like new scouts.

 

This goes a long way towards fostering an understanding of what the troop expects of the new scouts. We also attempt to forwarn moms and dads of typical problems and what they might hear if "junior" is unhappy.

 

This doesn''t mean you don''t have problems...a weak troop guide, SPL or even a "bad" NSP patrol leader can create issues. But generally you have ironed most of them out by summer camp or at least know which scouts to "watch".

 

But blaming the troop, program or leaders for every spoiled, whinie, runny nosed, overprotected, "wait on me first" baby that drops out of scouting is plain wrong.

 

I was once told..."scouting is for every boy...but every boy isn''t for scouting"...I fought the idea, at first. But then it becomes a matter of resources...where to spend your time and energy to do the most good...do your best and don''t beat yourself up too badly

 

Anarchist

[evmori]

Phone Call:

"Hi Mrs Jones, I''''m Billy, Jack''''s Patrol Leader. I will be responsible for making sure Jack cleans his tent every day and does his share of the chores. He''''s a first year camper, so he may have to learn that I''''m the first judge of clean, Dave our SPL is second, and Mr Blansten our Scoutmaster is third. I hope you''''re ok with this, are you?"

 

And what if mom''s not OK with this? What if she doesn''t want her little Jack to clean your slober off plates? This type of call should never be made by anyone!

 

This kinda stuff is what should be discussed at the pre-summer camp meeting! And by then, the new Scouts shoulda been on a couple camping trips where they had to do these things.

 

And yes Scouting is for all boys but all boys aren''t for Scouting.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Eagledad]

>>I was once told..."scouting is for every boy...but every boy isnt for scouting"...I fought the idea, at first. But then it becomes a matter of resources...where to spend your time and energy to do the most good...do your best and dont beat yourself up too badly

[Beavah]

Yah, my experiences have been da same as VeniVidi, anarchist, and Eagledad. Seen some really ugly parent responses to youth leaders when it involved them or their little darlin''. Seen plenty of deliberate manipulation, too, that the youth leaders (who are trained by society to be obedient to adults) couldn''t handle well. If yer goin'' to go that way, set it up so that there''s registered leader supervision of those conversations.

 

I agree with all da sides on the other matter. What Gern reports is not that uncommon, and probably parents with that attitude (and kids with those parents) aren''t going to stick with Scouting no matter what we do. But it''s still worth thinkin'' about and trying to do what we can to avoid the problem in the future.

 

Lots of good suggestions there, in terms of makin'' sure PL''s and TG''s are the right sort and well trained and supervised. Having ASM''s present as "co-leaders" with the PL''s for the first couple of trips can really help.

 

One other thing to try is to send prospective scout parents "homework" to do with their son before he joins. Simple stuff like making him clean pots after dinner, having him clean a bathroom or take a dump right after dad has used the bathroom (so he has to hold his nose like he will in a pit toilet ). Teach him how to dress himself in a tent or have him sleep in the backyard in a sleeping bag. Da simple things which might be "new" to a boy.

 

In my experience it''s toughest for oldest boys, and especially for only boys. Ones that are used to havin'' big brothers around don''t have as many issues.

 

Beavah