Early retirement for Eagle Scout parents.

[Eamonn]

Please don''t for a minute think I''m in any way saying what is right or what is wrong!

I''m not.

How anyone spends their free time is up too them.

Everyone has their own reasons for doing or not doing what they like.

Back home in the UK,when I was living there, Packs didn''t have Dens or Den meetings. The Pack met weekly. It was broken down into Sixes, with one Lad being a Sixer and another being a Seconder.

The adult leaders all had Jungle Book names and only the Cubmaster was Akela.

Cub Scouter''s didn''t as a rule follow their son into the Troop and a good many were Cub Scouter''s for life.

Seeing parents follow their son from the Pack into the Troop was new to me, as was the number of adults it takes to operate a Pack.

As with the Cub Scouter''s nearly all the Scoutmasters were what might be called "Lifers".

Many had been involved with one unit for a very long time.

Here in our District and Council, we don''t see a big turn over of Scoutmasters.

Our District is small in fact there are only something like 92 Troops in the Council. The District has about 20 Troops. Of this 20, one has a new Scoutmaster, one is a new Troop;only five or six years old. The rest have Scoutmasters who all have over ten years in as SM''s, some a lot longer.

ASM''s is a different story. A good many Dads do seem to cross over with their son, but very few seem to really understand the program and even less seem to be willing to acquire the skills needed to be good all round outdoor Scouter''s.

Looking at OJ''s old Troop.

This past Summer they attended the Council Summer camp with 21 boys and 16 adults.

Of the 16 adults only about five have any real Scouting know how, the rest were just there to watch out for their kid.

Some did run extra night time merit badge classes.

Sadly I have watched this over the years and the "Life Expectancy" of these guys is about 3 years.

Sure they are useful when it comes to driving Scouts to and from camp, but somehow they never really get bitten by the bug.

If they are busy and can''t attend a Troop meeting then junior isn''t attending. When being a ASM becomes a little too much for them, they seem happy that Junior''s Scouting career has come to an end.

Maybe I''m a slow learner?

I became a Scouter thinking I was God''s gift to Scouting.

There I was a Queen''s Scout, Gold Duke of Edinburgh recipient. I rushed off to attend Wood Badge, but still it took me a good five or six years to really understand what Scouts and Scouting was really about. Heck it took that long for me to grasp the Patrol method.

I was lucky that I had been in a Troop that had given me the skills that I knew the outdoor skills, still it took some time to master a way of passing them on to little Lads.

While as I say everyone is free to do what they will with their time, it does seem that over the past few weeks there have been a few threads that are saying "My kid made Eagle. - What''s next?"

I would ask these people to give some thought to not leaving the Troop. We do need you. We need people who have been around for a while and do have the skills and understanding of the program.

If you have five or six years in, you are just starting to understand the program and are worth your weight in gold.

Ea.

[John-in-KC]

E,

 

Absolutely concur. Scouting is as good a place for adults to congregate as Rotary, Kiwanis or even Masonic.

 

When we say "serve the youth," we have to remember youth need a safety net, and that''s our job.

 

Now, getting folks to getting bit by the Scouting bug... well, that''s where some of the primae and side activities of Councils... Wood Badge, various specialty training opportunities, maintenance days at the camps, golf tournaments, sporting clays tournaments, all come into play.

 

Making it fun CAN apply to the adults as well. If it''s all scut work, it may be rewarding, but lots of folks won''t come back.

[gwd-scouter]

The recent thread Eamonn is referring to is so common in our area. If a parent gets involved with his/her son in the Troop (and that itself is a big IF), it has been my experience that they only stick around as long as their son is still involved in Scouts. Very few adult leaders in our District are in it for the boys - all the boys - and not just their son. It certainly explains the high turnover rate of ASMs and SMs in our young troop and others as well.

 

I thought it was interesting the other day when my husband was asked "your son is close to getting Eagle, guess you''ll quit Scouting then, too." Husband''s first response was that he didn''t think his (our) son considered earning Eagle as a quitting point in Scouts. But his second response caught me off guard a bit. He said that after nine years as a Scout Leader, he is just now getting the hang of it, he''s having a lot of fun, and figures he''ll be in it as long as the need is there.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

 

[clc5105]

I just had this conversation with my son the other day. We were discussing his upcoming Eagle Project and I told him that just because he was going to make Eagle, I wasn''t leaving the troop. He replied " I wasn''t expecting you to. In fact I''m going to stay with the troop to help. So you''ll need to get me an adult application. " I can think of few times when I was more proud of him.

[gwd-scouter]

Welcome to the forum, clc5105.

 

In my post, I mentioned my son who is closing in on his Eagle requirements. He is our younger son. Older son, now in his 3rd year of college, is an ASM with our troop and attends as many outings as he can. He is an Eagle that is giving back to his troop, along with the time he gives to our Council through our OA Lodge and summer camp. Sadly, there just are not many of them out there.

 

Congrats to you and your son for continuing to be active with your troop - even after your son earns his Eagle. We need more folks like you.

 

 

[GernBlansten]

I''m hitting the time that you all are talking about.

 

I had a goal that I would be active in scouting until my son wasn''t. I would support his unit and throw all my energy in making sure it worked as well as it could so he would have a better unit than I did as a youth.

 

My son is approaching eagle and I''ve done some thinking about what is my role after he becomes like most other teenagers and moves on to fumes and perfumes. We are trying to resurrect our Venture Crew and I''m trying to get my son interested in joining it. I might move from ASM to Venture advisor. If he doesn''t show interest in that, then I''ve got to decide whether I still want to work with other peoples children. To tell you the truth, the enjoyment doesn''t always outweigh the pain. So I thought maybe my role should be at the district or council level. But I really don''t like the politics and some of the folks are just insufferable. So no, I will not serve there.

 

I''ve got lots of things I put on hold to do scouting. I also have a daughter who''s taken a bit of a back burner activity wise with me. I could help coach her volleyball team. Maybe teach her rock climbing or sailboat racing on Lasers. Maybe she will want to do Venturing when she gets old enough.

 

So if after my son gets Eagle and maybe if he quits before he does and I never put on the uniform again, I will not feel the least bit guilt for leaving. I''ve given my time, my energy, my money, my weekends, my patience.

[BrentAllen]

I don''t know whether my 11 year old will ever make Eagle, but I plan on being in Scouting for a long time.

The SM of our Troop (as a youth) was a SM for 30 years. My dad was still involved long after I went to college. One of their WB Patrol mates from the 1970''s lives very close to me - he was a SM for 32 years, earned his 4th bead years ago, and is a Life to Eagle Counselor - still going strong at 75 years of age. The gentleman who was their Coach Counselor back in the 70''s was an unofficial advisor to the WB course I just staffed - he is also a 4 beader, still active as a Scouter. The SM of this summer''s WB course (Ted) has been a SM for 34 years, never had a son, and will be going strong for years to come.

These Scouters are my role models. They enjoy Scouting because they get to work with people who share their same values and mission. Scouting is a way of life for them, and it won''t stop being a way of life as long as they are breathing.

 

Ted runs a very interesting Troop - which we are using as a model for our new Troop. ASMs are selected - you can''t just show up and say you want to be an ASM. The requirements include the basic training (SLT, ITOLS) but then also includes many of the T-FC requirements. They expect the ASMs to know how to take care of themselves in the woods, and how to teach those skills. They even have a SM conference. Once completed, the new ASM is recognized in a ceremony and made an official member of the adult patrol (Bears, for them). ASMs are expected to be 100% at all campouts and activities. If they can''t attend, they are required to notify the SM as far in advance as possible.

 

Some might think with all these requirements, it would be hard to get ASMs. They would be wrong. This Troop has plenty of ASMs and Committee members, most of whom are WB trained as well. Ted jokes that WB training has almost turned in to a requirement as well, since nearly all are.

 

Their adult patrol has elections once a year, and elect a Patrol Leader. His duties for the adult patrol are identical to those of the boys'' - make duty rosters, see that camp runs smoothly, etc. These adults really enjoy camping and spending time with each other, so they are having as much fun as the boys. Many have been there for years after their sons aged out.

 

Every other month, Ted holds an AIA (All Interested Adults) dinner and meeting at his house. As titled, all adults are welcome to attend and voice any concerns and hear about upcoming plans, while sharing a meal. This helps create a real family environment for the Troop adults. Please note this does not mean the adults plan the Troop events - this is just a time for the SM to relay the plans the PLC has made to the adults.

 

To see what I consider to be a well organized boy-run, boy-led Troop, visit http://www.204bsa.com/

While there, check out their requirements on emergency preparedness kits. We are starting this tradition with our new Troop.

[scoutldr]

My own sons are 29 and 24 and no longer registered. I have been in scouting since 1964, with a few years off for college and waiting for my first born to become Cub age. I can''t imagine NOT being in Scouting, but the time is coming ... my two compadres (SM and ASM) are in the same boat, and we are ready to give it up. Recruiting has become fruitless, and the current crop of parents, while nice and very appreciative, show no inclination to take over the helm. The most they will do is show up for meetings, sit in the back of the room, and provide transportation when asked. One is an Eagle, but very shy and quiet, and the others are freshly retired military who are busy going to school and transitioning to new careers (that''s the inherent problem of retiring when your kids are still in middle school!). We will be losing one next summer to a military transfer, then we will be down to five. So, when the time comes, which will be when the current crop either Eagles or ages out, we will throw in the towel, because you reach a point where you (and my wife) say, "why am I still doing this?" (usually in the woods during a cold wet weekend, when the scout''s dads are home watching the game on their plasma TVs). It is not without mixed emotions, but I am nearing retirement from my govt job in a coupla years and also need to be making transition plans...at age 56, I won''t be able to sit at home carving neckerchief slides, since I still have a mortgage and bills to pay. Our CO doesn''t care either way.

[jr56]

I believe that scouting should teach "service beyond self". Achieving the rank of Eagle is only the beginning, it is time to start giving back to the program all that you have gotten out of it, and more. The scouting trail never ends.

[GernBlansten]

You can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave.

 

What is this cult I''ve gotten myself into? I need an intervention!

[highcountry]

A good part of the problem is that dealing with people is now more difficult than it was years ago. The overburden of rules and process and paperwork and liability adds to the frustration. The last scoutmaster resigned and I took over a year ago, he was extremelya ctive and enthusiastic and the adults is what burned him out. Selfish demanding people, dis-agreeable people, kooks with crazy ideas and bad people skills that demanded to have their way, on and on, we have all seen it. His wife was Committee Chair and she did a great job, but when they left they mostly disappeared. The jerks ruined it for them so much thay have a few good memories and lots of bad ones unfortunately.

 

As many have already read, we had a horrible experience with a terrible Committee Chair whom we managed to have removed about 3 months ago, otherwise we have a good group for the most part. The nasty comments coming from her son though erode some of the good tiems, one or two of her friends who stayed with the troop have to get their digs in when the opportunity presents itself which also dimninished the joy of running and improving the troop. The lack of resposnes to requests and communications is wearing thin on me too. Emails sent out requesting opinion on an idea or issue that require a reply with one sentence gets no responses ata ll out of 35 eamil addresses. We have a major fund raiser going on right now and ther are 2 adults showing up time after time. I get downright angry at teh parents who never show for this as myseld and the treasurer do the prepetatory work so these other adults who are "too busy" can conveiently show up and have fundraising work available for their kids when teh mood suits them.

 

These are some of the reasons why I suspect people leave after their kids hit Eagle. I am doing my level best to impprove the troop in all aspects and provide a fantastic program while I am SM which I will do for one more year, perhaps 2 if things become a bit more tolerable with regards to the lazy and the selfish and the plain nasty people. When I am done in a year or two though, I will be completely done, I feel I have done my time and have no regrets, I volunteered, so many others never did so I feel no obligation to stay and deal with the idiots.

 

When I was a scout,m people tried more to work together on a common goal and plan, they communicated, comprimised and worked things out more. Today, adults act worse than kids did back when, it is all about me, me me.....even though it was me that volunteered, folks who never lift a finger wonder why I won''t do things their way, tehy expect me and my supporters to make things conveniently available for them when things suit them and if they sign up for an activity but at the last minute can''t go they can''t be bothered to contact you and tell you to not wait for them to bring their scout. You get the picture.

 

I ften wonder if this laziness, selfishness and lack of civility is a reason why volunteering, memberships and community involvement is suffereing everywhere, people are fed up with dealing with jerks....

[Lisabob]

"I ften wonder if this laziness, selfishness and lack of civility is a reason why volunteering, memberships and community involvement is suffereing everywhere, people are fed up with dealing with jerks.... "

 

Interesting comment. I suspect the problem is circular. BECAUSE fewer people engage in civic behavior, volunteering, etc., when they interact with such organizations they are not properly socialized in how to behave and they lack skills necessary for the group''s longevity and success.

 

I suspect that some of what the BSA includes (or needs to add) in its leader training nowadays is really all about how to work in groups, as much as it is about specific program issues. At least, I''ve noticed that these are the kinds of questions that come up when I attend or have helped run pack and troop committee training!

 

 

[Eamonn]

" suspect that some of what the BSA includes (or needs to add) in its leader training nowadays is really all about how to work in groups, as much as it is about specific program issues."

I sorta think this is what the 21st Century Wood Badge is trying to do.

I know this is going to come off sounding a little daffy!!

But at times I wonder if having too many involved parents is a bad thing?

Looking back at myself.

My parents were never actively involved in my Scouting "Career" they were happy to help me pay my way and offer financial support to the Troop.

Our Scoutmaster (Scout Leader in the UK) had a Leadership Team of about six ASM''s. Two never missed a meeting some were experts in something or another and would attend when they could or when they were needed.

This was the model I used when I was SM.

To be very honest I never liked the idea of baby sitting parents and somehow had this feeling that the time the Lads spent Scouting was time away from home and their parents.

I somehow felt that I got to know the Lad a little better when his Dad wasn''t hovering in the background.

Thinking about it, when I was Scout, none of the leaders were married or had any children! Later my old SM did marry a ACM.

During the 11 years I was a SM back home, our "Leadership Team" were all the best of pals. We knew each other very well, we met for a drink after meetings (That is allowed in the UK) Our weekly meeting of the adults was over a pint on Sunday after church.

Pete, our QM did have two sons in the Troop, but the rest of us were single, footloose and fancy free!!

While we did serve the Scouts and I like to think we had a first class program!! We also had a lot of fun and really enjoyed spending time together.

Eamonn.