Are ASM's committee members?

[Beavah]

Yah, there's just no one right way here.

 

Most small troops have folks double up, eh? Even if they register as MCs for paperwork purposes, they might serve as SAs in a lot of practical ways.

 

Just to clarify for folks, though, the "no secret societies" bit applies to youth members and activities only. Parents are allowed to attend any youth event, including traditionally "secret" stuff like OA ceremonies. But that rule doesn't apply to adult stuff at the unit, CO, or council level. Troop committees, and council committees, can be "closed" to folks not on the committee if they so choose. That's not too common, but there are some CO's where it's normal, and there are some circumstances where it's appropriate in any unit. A parent can't demand to attend (or speak at) a committee meeting if he/she is not a member of the committee.

 

Beavah

[SR540Beaver]

I would think that the unit committee that chooses to be closed to non-committee members is the unit that will find it difficult to get adult support for driving, fund-raisers, etc. Except for very special circumstances, it would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[OldGreyEagle]

Seeing as there are no closed organizations in the BSA, I am not sure how a committee could be "closed"

[Beavah]

Yah, OGE a committee isn't an "organization", eh? Yeh gotta go look at the text and context of that regulation. It only applies to youth activities.

 

Council Executive Board meetings and committees are "closed" a lot of da time, eh?

 

Same can be true of troop committee meetin's. Some CO's run on small CO-based committees that aren't advertised to parents. Even troop committee meetings that are generally "open" can be "closed" to consider sensitive topics like awardin' camperships, disciplining scouts, etc.

 

What the best setup is for any given troop or CO is a good discussion, but it's just incorrect info to say that a troop committee can't be a closed body if it or the CO so chooses.

 

Beavah

 

[John-in-KC]

There were rare occasions when I called the Committee into Executive Session... usually meaning the SPL and any other youth were excused.

[Hunt]

"As I recall the Internet Recharter Adult Position Alignment checkpage, you need a COR, a CC, 3 MC, and 1 SM. No assistants required."

 

True, but I believe you had to have at least one SA to be considered a Quality Unit (or at least, that was one of the criteria). Of course, we also wanted to have SAs who were trained and who could function as SM if the SM wasn't available.

[OldGreyEagle]

Yah Beavah, you are right I suppose, still when people dont want other people to know what they are doing, it always makes my hackles stand up, whether they "can" or not

[kenk]

In my son's dysfunctional troop ...

 

The committee is lead by the committee chair who decides what activities will occur during the upcoming year and when both the activities and troop meetings will be held.

 

The activities coordinator books the actvities and collects the money and permission slips.

 

The advancement coordinator collects handbooks at troop meetings and records completed advancement requirements putting it into Troopmaster, and plans & hosts the bi-annual Court of Honor at which the Scouts get all their badges.

 

The treasurer collects receipts, writes checks to pay back the Scoutmaster for food purchases, the advancment coordinator for badge purchases, and keeps track of all of this in Quicken.

 

There is another person on our committee, but she doesn't have a specific role. I think they just thought there should be more people on the committee.

 

The committee has one meeting in August of each year to identify the upcoming year's activities and the troop's schedule. It is held in the committee chair's house, so of course her husband the Scoutmaster attends, but he doesn't have much input. It is at this same meeting that the committee decides what the troop will do for fundraising during the year. Once the fundraising activities are selected, nobody really asks anyone to help - they just wait until nobody volunteers and then drop the fundraising. That is why our troop has no money to buy gear, which is why our troop only has one stove and one propane tank to cook for 14 Scouts plus the leaders. This allows the troop to all eat together which the committee chair says is what they want to do anyway - she says they tried using patrols once about four years ago and it didn't go over well with the boys.

 

The committee also holds boards of reviews for advancement tice a year just before the court of honors. The boards of review consists of at least one committee member and two other adults. Assistant Scoutmasters can participate, but the advancement coordinator and the Scoutmaster cannot.

 

The Scoutmaster is the person who works with the PLC to decide what the menus will be for the few campouts we have. Most of the time the Scoutmaster purchases the food too. This doesn't happen too often since the troop is only camping twice this fall and two or three times next spring. This camping schedule meets the committee chair's objective of keeping the Scoutmaster - her husband - at home as much as possible. The Scoutmaster also does Scoutmaster conferences, does the Scoutmaster's Minute at the end of troop meetings, and at the end of each campout the Scoutmaster scolds the Scouts for goofing off to much and leaving too much litter around.

 

The Patrol Leaders Council meets just before each troop meeting and consists of the senior patrol leader, the assistant senior patrol leader, the two patrol leaders, the two assistant patrol leaders, the scribe, the quartermaster, the librarian, and the historian. Of course this is 10 out of the 14 Scouts in the troop, so with all that confusion its probably a good thing that they focus so much on the upcoming game.

 

The assistant Scoutmasters work with the Scouts during the PLC meeting to decide what they're going to do during the troop meeting which starts in about 45 minutes. They use the standard Troop Meeting form as best they can. The primary focus is on the game that will be played. Part of the reason the game is such a focus is that the troop can't do too much skill development or advancment at meetings since they didn't plan the meeting until the previous hour, so they didn't bring any materials with them (ropes, maps, compasses, stoves, etc...), but that is OK since most of the advancement takes place in Tenderfoot-to-First Class sessions during the week of summer camp.

[Beavah]

Yah, kenk... OK....

 

So where would yeh like us to begin?

 

Or are yeh just lookin' for brothers and sisters to share your pain?

 

Not ideal, to be sure. But what's your kid's experience been like? Sometimes a good SM can manage a decent program despite an odd parent committee.

 

Beavah

 

[scoutmom2]

Wow! Thanks for all the response. In spite of my stress level, it is taking me awhile to get back to the forum (that and a message that keeps popping up that opening this web page will harm my computer). Anyway, the issue has to do with our SM. Our Field Director and the Unit Commissioner want the committee members to meet and decide if we are going to relieve him of his duties now or wait until we recharter. Their position is that the sooner we do it, the better for the boys. That is my feeling too, but there are some parents that want to wait it out. In the past year, we have lost boys, and they state it is because of the SM. They are unhappy with the way he treats them (we are not cub scouts is a phrase we hear on a regular basis), one scout states "he sucks the fun out of every outing", he is very inconsistent with them, and the list could go on and on. Some of the "older parents" are tired of this and the newer parents haven't had the full experience yet. The SM sent all of the parents in the troop a letter last week outlining what he sees wrong with the troop and if we "don't change our ways the troop will be dissolving". In his letter he states that he is willing to step down from his position in Nov. after COH. I have tried talking to him, the ASM's (at least 3 of them) have talked to him over the last year, our previous SM has talked to him, the SE and Field Director have talked to him about his interactions (or lack of interactions) with the scouts and several other issues that we have had and he doesn't get it. If he is listening, then he isn't hearing any of it. He goes right back to the behavior we have asked him to stop or correct. Extremely frustrating!!! And then he says if you have a problem with me or if there is something I can do differently let me know. Well, buddy, we have and it's still happening. Okay, I need to stop this now or I'll be eating tums all night. Thanks for letting me vent!

[John-in-KC]

The FD and UC need to be talking to your Chartered Partner's Executive Officer and COR!!! They are the ones who hire/fire.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

What John said!

 

It is not the Committee's job to decide if, or when, a volunteer is relieved of his position. That is a decision made between the head of your Charter Org, your COR, and your CC, with help and input from your UC if needed.

 

I am not real sure why your FD, and especially your SE, would be involved unless there are youth protection issues involved. If there are YP issues, than he needs to be gone yesterday.

[eisely]

Might as well add my two cents.

 

The most recent posts are correct in that the institutional head of the chartered organization or the chartered organization representative are the only people with the authority to remove anybody, youth or adult, from the unit. Only the local council or the national council have the authority to remove a youth or adult "member" from BSA altogether. Committees get involved in these things and I can see how the unit commissioner and other powers that be want the committee to be involved. I would think that any reasonably well managed troop should have committee involvement in such an important decision. However, there is no firm guidance on how that is to be accomplished.

 

It is also correct the neither the Scoutmaster nor the Asst. Scoutmasters are technically part of the committee. I think that one of the background reasons why the committee membership is specified in this manner is to allow the committee to act in an evenhanded manner in exactly these kinds of situations.

 

I also have taught "Troop Committee Challenge" for several years now. While I am careful to point out that the SM and SA's are not committee members, I think it is a mistake to exclude them from committee meetings and not allow them to participate in routine deliberations. Removal of an adult volunteer, particularly the SM, is not a routine item of business.

 

I also teach that most committees operate on a consensus basis for most routine business. Nevertheless a committee should have a procedure in place for deciding when a formal vote is necessary, who is eligible to vote, and how votes are to be conducted.

 

One poster said that their committee met only once a year. I don't know how any troop committee can fulfill its functions meeting so infrequently. Ours meets monthly.

 

Another resource is the BSA publication "Troop Committee Guidebook" that should be available at your local scout shop.

[FScouter]

There is a section in the book "Selecting District People" #34512 that discusses how to remove a volunteer.