Are ASM's committee members?

[scoutmom2]

This might seem like a strange question, but I'd like to know. I am waiting for a response from our council as well. But, being a weekend, and my stress level, I'd like to know how other Troops handle this. We have an issue our committee has to vote on and there is some confusion as to who can actually vote on it. Our Field Director (we don't have an SE right now) said only committee members and when I look at the charter, I know who those folks are, but now some of them are questioning if the ASM's should vote too. Thanks for any help!

[sst3rd]

Scoutmom2,

 

I'm sure you'll get more detailed responses, but in short, ASM's and Committee positions are two completely different positions within Scouting, with two completely different sets of responsibilities.

Committees should never have to "vote" on anything. Each Committee position has a set of responsibilities, thus one doesn't have anything to do with the other. The hold Committee should be supporting each other in those goals. There's documentation all over the place to prove what I've just said.

So, there's more to this story I'm sure. I hope cooler heads provail. Everyone should be supporting the Scouts and "their" program.

 

sst3rd

[FScouter]

The Scoutmaster and assistant Scoutmasters are not members of the troop committee. Ive found that nearly every question a committee feels must be voted on is already answered in the books. If youre looking for a solution, the forum may be able to offer some help if you tell us what the issue is.

[Aquila calva]

"Committees should never have to "vote" on anything."

 

I'll second that!

 

Troops are collective efforts by many people, young, old, trained, untrained, experienced with Scouting and totally inexperienced. Building consensus on issues is a lot better than trying to formulate a "motion" that then someone feels needs to be voted up or down. Talk about stress! This just produces more stress than is ever necessary.

 

The "troop committee" structure is a way of dividing up administrative responsibilies among people who have expressed an interest in helping the troop function as effectively as possible. This effectiveness can vary greatly from one troop to the next.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, scoutmom2, there's just so many different ways troops and COs do this committee stuff, eh? It'd probably help us to help you if yeh let us know what all the fuss was about that's givin' you stress.

 

In some units, troop committees are just like PTOs, they're open to all parents. In that case, an ASM or SM who is a parent should probably get a vote, eh? That seems only right and fair. There are quite a lot of troops who operate this way, probably because it's a very common cub pack arrangement.

 

In da official BSA literature, committees are a selected group of people, parents & non-parents, who are to act sorta like a board of directors. In that kind of setup, the SM is like the CEO... he/she reports to the committee, but doesn't get a vote. Some units run this way.

 

In some units, committees are sort of warm bodies, and mostly exist to fulfill paperwork requirements and handle a few administrative tasks. This seems most common at the Venturing level. This type of committee almost never "votes".

 

There are other permutations, of course.

 

Then there's a bigger question of "what should a committee be voting on?". Lots of problems get created when a committee starts to micromanage the program side... voting on things like individual campouts or gettin' in the way of the SM's job to administer the program. I don't quite agree with sst3rd that committees shouldn't vote; there's plenty that do just fine voting and there are some things (like expelling a kid) where a vote seems downright necessary. But I do agree with the sentiment; most of the time, the committee should proceed by consensus in ways that actively support the SM.

 

Beavah

 

[SR540Beaver]

I'll second what others have said that committees are not a voting body. They have a chair who makes assignments and builds consensus. The SM and ASM's are not "voting" members. All of that being said, I will tell you that all three units I've been associated with as an adult vote on items with SM's and ASM's voting.

[jr56]

Our troop always called them "parent meetings". There were registered committee memebers, but when it came to a vote, every reistered leader and parent had a vote. I know there is loads of information against this, but this is how the committee chairman wanted to run it.

[insanescouter]

Officially as I recall no the Scoutmaster nor the ASM are members of the Troop Committee. However most units I know at least allow one (and sometimes all) member(s) of the SM Corps a voice. I know many SM that if the committee took that voice away would just throw up their hands and disappear. That is not to mean they are bad SM, some of them are the best of the best. Others, well no comment.

 

Ok I guess what I am trying to say is every unit, every group of people are different. What works for one unit wont work for another. I know of no unit that 100% of the time follows the BSA rules and guidelines 100% to the letter. That is not to mean I believe in following what is convenient to follow and ignore the rest, it is just a statement of fact. And please lets not start a policy war, that is not my intentions. Yes some units do a very good job at following the policies, and others to lesser degrees - but as I said I don't know of any that can say they have never, even if by accident, screwed up...

 

(sorry I felt like a lawyer witting that trying to prevent being flamed... lol)

 

Anyway I guess you get my point is to say that parents should or shouldn't have a say on what is going on? After all ASM, SM, etc are generally parents too ... It really comes down to what works for you, not what works for some one else.

 

As I said above officially only committee members (as far as i know) have vote. In reality at least in my Troop all adults have a say including the parents. Keep in mind its rare to have more then 4-6 total people present anyway .

 

Ok I am babbling again and going to get myself in trouble... take my babbling 2 cents for whats it worth and ignore the rest ...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[ManyIrons]

scoutmom2,

 

Assistant Scoutmasters (nor the SM for that matter) are members of the troop committee. If your committee needs proof have them review a copy of the Troop Committee Guidebook. In my copy, Chapter 4 outlines all the positions of the committee and does not include Scoutmasters -- assistant or otherwise.

 

And for the record, Scoutmasters and assistants are not supposed to hold a committee position in addition to their other responsibilities.

 

Hope this helps.

[Aquila calva]

Hello again Scoutmom2,

 

You now have several answers to your straight-forward question. Are ASM's committee members? In a word, the answer is No.

 

But this doesnt seem to get to the heart of the matter, since your post includes a couple interesting and provocative statements, including my stress level and We have an issue our committee has to vote on and there is some confusion as to who can actually vote on it.

 

Since you are the Committee Chairman (according to your profile here) you have several extremely important duties in the troop. One of those duties is to set the agenda for the committee meetings (or "leader meetings" or whatever your troop calls them). If you feel there is an issue the group has to vote on but yet you (as CC) are not sure who can actually vote on it, then the best choice may be to not get in a position where a vote will be called. As the person who sets the agenda, you can explain to the group that more discussion of the issue needs to take place, and there will be no immediate vote on the issue. Now is your opportunity to become a consensus builder.

 

Perhpas have a private talk with the Scoutmaster, and start finding a consensus. If the two of you can go to the others with some well-thought-out ideas, there is a much better chance the rest of the group will follow your lead.

 

[AvidSM]

ASM's are not committee members and do not attend committee meetings; they have no influence on the business of the committee.

 

I attend committee meetings as a Scoutmaster, but I am only there to give my report on progress of the troop, PLC actions, etc. I do not tell the committee what to do. Each committee member with a position give a report also. We might give each other ideas or suggestions to help each other out.

 

If your committee is voting on issues so critical that you somehow need to get the ASM's involved, it has a problem.

 

[acco40]

I agree that the Scoutmaster (SM) and Assistant Scoutmasters (SAs) are not members of the troop committee. However, the BSA is not always crystal clear in conveying that message. For example, it you take the Troop Committee Challenge, the committee positions do not include either SAs or the SM but under their "suggested" agenda under the "reports from committee members" the first member listed is the Scoutmaster. I don't have it with me but I've also seen the Scoutmaster listed as a "non-voting" member of the troop committee in some BSA resources (Troop Committee Guidebook for example). Another example, in the Boy Scout Fast start on-line training the Scoutmaster is listed as a member of the committee (although when described Scoutmaster is listed as a non-formal member, and not having a vote implying that committees vote - another topic of discussion).

 

So I think I'm safe to say that while not a member of the troop committee, the Scoutmaster does (or should) attend all troop committee meetings and plays an important role in the meetings by informing them of the troop program and works with them to get their support of these programs.

 

Therefore, as long as the Socutmasters role is identified, the fact that he is or is not a member of the committee proper is not important. As for the SAs - no they are not members but may participate in the troop committee meeting as a representative of the Scoutmaster if so designated by the Scoutmaster. Don't forget, that as in all Scouting functions - the meetings are open to all parents to observe.(This message has been edited by acco40)

[SR540Beaver]

Acco: Don't forget, that as in all Scouting functions - the meetings are open to all parents to observe.

 

Correct. I think we are conveying the wrong impression here that ASM's can not attend committee meetings. In most cases, ASM's are parents and have as much right to attend the meetings as any committee member or parent. They can even speak up on an issue if they want. What they do not have is a committee position as they are on the program side.

[Hunt]

I would also like to add that in a small troop, it may be difficult to be too rigid about committee and other leadership roles. We have faced the dilemma of deciding whether it would be better for a particular adult to be an SA (so we'd have enough SAs) or a committee member (so we could staff BORs). We finally got some more committee members, and solved the problem. But the SAs still attend the committee meetings. I wish we had enough adult leaders so we could compartmentalize more.

[John-in-KC]

Hunt,

 

As I recall the Internet Recharter Adult Position Alignment checkpage, you need a COR, a CC, 3 MC, and 1 SM. No assistants required.

 

That said, what National prescribes and the minimum and what's right are two different things, as are what happens when you have a small Troop. I'm glad you found additional folks to be Members of Committee. The youth need the divesity of meeting lots of different adults. Last time I checked, we were not automatons