What Does Boy Run / Boy Led REALLY Mean?

[ustbeeowl]

I have a couple of boys in my troop that feel that the troop is not boy run if the adults have anything to do with the troop at all, but at meetings, they tend to get into trouble >>because

[BrentAllen]

"The boys, not the adults, are responsible for uniformin'."

 

So Beavah, do you tell the PLC that Troops don't have the authority to set their own uniform policy, other than for hats and neckerchiefs? Or do you expect them to figure that out on their own? Or do you just not care about that BSA policy? If the last, then what other BSA policies do you let your Troop ignore?

 

I'll ask a question you seem to be dodging for a second time. When a boy from your unit goes for his Eagle BOR, what does he wear? Scout's Honor on your answer.

[jambo]

I noticed that we have a variety of people on this forum, not just Scouters...and it is a debating society, per say. PLC does not have the right to change the National policy on uniforming. Where in the by laws is it written that Scoutmaster, or PLC can change uniforming.? I agree with ' kenk', 'aquela' and I see that 'beavah' is very much spewing the agenda of the training cadre. I liked the analogy of the 'fertilizing scouts ',but I think we should concentrate on leadership, and how we can generated enough interest, excitement,adventure, to have every 'red blooded' American boy wanting to join. Let me stop babbling..or I will become like " insane".(ha,ha,) ..Long live Scouting.! jambo

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>So Beavah, do you tell the PLC that Troops don't have the authority to set their own uniform policy, other than for hats and neckerchiefs? Or do you expect them to figure that out on their own? Or do you just not care about that BSA policy? If the last, then what other BSA policies do you let your Troop ignore?

[jambo]

Eagle dad,thinks that running a Troop with 14 year boy, is what scouting is all about...I think he is mistaken. Then all of us experienced adults should sit back in our rocking chairs, and watch scouting program fall apart, or at best develop into a mediocre organization competing in numbers, so to get more finances. We certainly will become "BSA", ( Baby Sitting Association ) Who ever thought out this so called " Boy run " troop?. In my opinion,he should have his head examined.( or was this idea developed by the brains at our National Council ? They , really never ran one of the best units in the USA, It hurts to see Scouting, going down...it will be soon called the " local boys organization ", and not Scouting, the way the old timers used to know.....jambo

[Eagledad]

>>Eagle dad,thinks that running a Troop with 14 year boy, is what scouting is all about...I think he is mistaken. Then all of us experienced adults should sit back in our rocking chairs, and watch scouting program fall apart, or at best develop into a mediocre organization competing in numbers, so to get more finances.

[John-in-KC]

Barry,

 

Don't let Jambo's ad hominem attacks get to you.

 

I know I appreciate your input and feedback!

 

John

[gwd-scouter]

Hmmmm. what does it really mean?

In our troop it has meant something different for the past three years.

Three years ago, I stepped up as SM and with that the idea that I wanted to turn our troop into the boy-run/scout-run (whatever) model of a Boy Scout Troop.

 

Now three years into the progress, we are still in process. Yes, we've had success in our older boys taking responsibility for the troop (in reality, that means, the former older boys are now gone and the new older boys have learned over the past three years). The new older scouts in our troop learned from the spoon-fed model we've had in place and slowly back-off of over the past couple of years.

 

We've finally sent a couple of buys to Council NYLT training. So far, I've seen good results from that and our current SPL is taking more charge of things.

 

But, the reality three years into our progression is that the boys "know" it is their troop and the they "know" that they are responsible for what happens during meetings and outings. Yes, they have done very well in taking over their troop, but many things are still "suggested" by me, their Scoutmaster. We have our annual planning weekend coming up this weekend and I know they will draw on the success of the past year and come with great plans. They have learned that the adults all subscribe to "if we plan it, we can do it."

 

What I have learned most about the boy-led troop is that is depends on the boys you have, their level of commitment, and that is an ever changing process. As the SM, my challenge is to mentor the new crop of leaders, year after year, to help them run whatever troop of boys we may have at the time. THAT! is the biggest challenge. A troop is ever-changing with new members coming in and older members going out, and we as Scoutmasters must keep up with and adapt to the changes.

 

The vision is there and I thank members of this forum for helping me through my first years as SM. It's the vision thing. If the adult leaders can all get on board with the vision for the troop, then success can be there. Our adult leaders are there now with the boy-led thing and are willing to let them fail (yeah, that's REALLY hard still).

 

My goal is that within two more years we will have someone tapped to be the new Scoutmaster of the Troop and he/she will be taking over a troop that is functioning well, recruiting new members, boys leading the Troop, and one of the (if not THE) best troops in our district.

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, BrentAllen, there's always an argument that boy-led should be trumped by all kinds of adult policy, eh?

 

But I'm where EagleDad is, eh? Boy run means the boys, not the adults, are responsible for workin' with the guys in their patrol on uniformin'. Simple thing, really. They have uniform inspection sheets to work from, give 'em a copy of the Insignia Guide if yer into that, let them make the calls and interpretation. If they fail, have Mrs. Jones comment to the SPL after the COH that they looked "really sloppy" and see what he does with it, eh?

 

Trust your kids.

 

When a boy from your unit goes for his Eagle BOR, what does he wear? Scout's Honor on your answer.

 

Yah, I work with multiple units, eh? My native troop around here wears shirts and substitute olive pants (well, actually, they're movin' to switchbacks now). They look pretty sharp, and are typically the best-uniformed at camp every summer 'cause they don't mind wearin' it. I've done one EBOR on the trail at Philmont and that was in nylon rain jackets . My native crew wears a crew sweatshirt (their only uniform) to EBORs. I serve on EBORs around our district, and kids wear a range from shirts only to the full Oscar to Venturin' tie-dye. I'd have to say that almost every troop or kid does somethin' a bit different to make their uniform their own, eh?

 

Yah, as the district/council guy, it's my job to support the units in their program.

[Day_Starr]

I think "boy-led" is going to mean different things according to the troop and the boys and adults involved. When my husband took over as Scout Master, at one point he was told by the former SM (now Assistant SM) and the SPL that it's boy run and that the parents should have no say in it at all. The SPL followed it up with how annoyed he was with parents who would punish boys by not letting them go on camping trips.

 

Lets see...if we don't have two adults...there's no camping at all. If we don't have adults who can sign contracts for meeting places...no meeting place. There has to be a balance, boy run -- but yet not completely. And with the low parent participation our troop has, they will love the idea of "its boy-run, you don't need me! lol

 

We allow them to do *almost* all of what they would like to do, when they run it 'their' way, but there are certain times we have to say uh uh, when we see certain results. The older boys for example loved dodge ball which is a traditional scout game. But when we saw that it was a game where some got hurt (not seriously) and that the younger or smaller boys were constantly targets and sat out the game other choices were put on the list and that was taken out.

 

Another problem was on trips the older boys, generally leaders of some sort, would band together as a clique leaving the younger or lower ranking kids behind. I let them know that this was not leadership, and "strongly suggested" (ok required them to) pay attention to the rest of the troop. I saw it happen often enough to know that without my insistance, this was going to be standard practice.

 

Making phone calls on cells, playing with gameboys during troop meetings, not wearing uniforms, if they had a vote this would be a-ok, lol.

[FScouter]

"Another problem was on trips the older boys, generally leaders of some sort, would band together as a clique leaving the younger or lower ranking kids behind."

 

That sounds like a BP patrol - a gang of friends. We create patrol problems when we adults force boys into patrols with other boys they would not naturally hang with. They gravitate out of the mandated patrol into their natural patrol.

[BrentAllen]

"Yah, BrentAllen, there's always an argument that boy-led should be trumped by all kinds of adult policy, eh?"

 

Interesting. I didn't realize BSA policy was "adult policy." Does that mean that all the other BSA policies, from G2SS to advancement, are all silly adult policies? Or are you the assigned mystic to determine which BSA policies are real, and which are silly adult policies that can be ignored?

 

FScouter, are the patrols in your troop all age-based? Do you have patrols of older boys, and each year the new Scouts form a permanent patrol? If so, do the younger boys ever learn anything from the older boys?

[Beavah]

Yah, BA, that means for G2SS too, eh? The boys should be involved in safety plannin' and taught how. That's why 2nd Class rank requires SSD, and 1st Class requires Safety Afloat. So the boys, as Patrol Leaders, can be responsible for leadin' and usin' those things to make their program run, not the adults.

 

Sure, youth leadership applies to safety and the outdoors method. Yep, it applies to advancement, havin' older boys instruct and do signoffs.

 

Uniform method ain't any different. Should be youth leadership there, too, eh?

[BrentAllen]

OK, Beavah, I'm starting to get your point. Just because some adult wrote BSA policy that says the Scout uniform includes Scout pants, socks and a belt doesn't mean the boys have to follow it. They can wear whatever they want, right?

 

And they can take the same attitude with the G2SS as well. If they want to play paintball, then they can, right? Same with hunting - they can all go on a dove shoot in a couple of weeks - great Scouting event! They can all ride out to the field in the back of a pick-up truck - that sounds like lots of fun! After the shoot, they can race the ATVs around the field.

 

I'm starting to like the way you think! No problems with the above, eh?

[Beavah]

Yah, maybe some examples, eh?

 

Which is Scouting:

 

1. The SM conducts a uniform inspection by-the-book, tellin' each kid what he got wrong and givin' him a score.

2. The Patrol Leader conducts a uniform inspection usin' the same materials, but maybe laughs at Billy wearin' the "deadly snorer" patch his patrol gave him after summer camp (and even gives him bonus points).

 

Which is Scouting:

 

1. The SM fills out the Tour Permit, gives the Safety Afloat talk, and handles all of the supervision arrangements for the float trip.

2. The PLC fills out the Tour Permit, a Star Scout gives the Safety Afloat talk, the SPL with a couple of youth BSA Lifeguards handle all of the supervision for the float trip. Even if maybe they don't do a perfect job on da float plan.

 

Which is Scouting:

 

1. The SM gives the PLC a long lecture on how they can't go do paintball because of policy and da chance that they might confuse a paintball gun with a real gun someday and become a Columbine-like murderer.

 

2. The PLC has a raucous debate on what that obscure passage means, and spend an hour arguin' over whether a paintball gun is a "firearm." Even if they decide in the end that the guys in the Explodin' Cow Farts and Killer Wabbit patrols will just get together and bike out to Mad Max's paintball emporium on Saturday as a group of friends, since they're all members and their parents let 'em play.

 

 

Me, I vote #2 in each case. As I said in my original post, "the boys, not the adults" assume responsibility.

 

There's some adults who don't believe in youth leadership. They can still run OK troops in a "school field trip" kinda way.

There's some troops where da youth aren't yet skilled enough to lead (often where the adults aren't skilled enough to mentor/teach 'em how). They gotta do what they gotta do.

 

Just that neither meets my personal definition of boy run, eh?

 

Beavah