Do you believe poor progam ...

[insanescouter]

Do you believe that a poor program is the result of many of the issues units face today?

 

I believe that a poor program, regardless of the reasons behind it, does cause many of the Problems within Scouting. It doesn't matter if its a result of:

 

lack of parental support

lack of leaders

cost issues

lack of equipment

 

The one thing it isn't is the boys fault. The Scouts follow the example set around them. If campout are being canceled bacuase of lack of transportation, and another time because of weather and yet another time because a special guest failed to full fill a promise... Well guess what happened over that year, the Scouts said why bother its just another empty plan. If it is a Troop then the PLC won't plan it out as well as they may have before and slowly things will just get worse.

 

I guess what I am trying to illustrate in a long winded fashion, is that it all has a ripple effect.

 

Now we know the program has suffered, the Scouts are losing interest, and it now leads to trouble getting new leaders and Scouts.

 

The fix is kind of obvious make the program exciting, challenging and fun. At the Cub level this is easier then at the Scout level.

 

In the Troop I made Eagle in we had a High Adventure Patrol (back then we called it a team). We were highly trained and skilled. We had a Troop campout and a High Adventure outing every month. No we did not always make both. We were expected though to continue to support the normal Troop outings as much as possible, and we did. We did Philmont, Grand Canyon Twice, and many other adventures, this started brining in guys who were not married wanting to help just to be part of our HAT Patrol. They were always told the same thing, that is nice, but you also have to help the Troop too. Some said yes, some we didn't see again. In the end we had 22 eagles in like 3 years, had over 60 active members, and did at least one activity a month and sometimes as many as three. To put all this in perspective this was on a Air Force base 30 miles in middle of no where and had only like 10,000 residents with two troops and two packs. The Jr. / Sr High School I went to there had like 800 students.

 

Now I am living in a big city with like 2million people and we are luck if we can get 15 active Scouts.

 

Any way I will stop my babbling now... not really sure if I am asking anything, but feel free to reply, tell a story, etc.

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[John-in-KC]

That great Scout Executive, H Roe Bartle, said it best:

 

Give the young men a great program and they will come.

 

It takes training on a few dedicated folks part:

 

Training in outdoor skills, good enough you are far better than the kids you teach, and then teach other kids.

 

Training in leadership, so that you can train young men to lead, and so they can train the ones following them to lead.

 

Training in using the "game with a purpose," so they don't realize they're learning even as they are participating.

 

It does take some facilities and some equipment: Hard to camp in 0F weather when your sleeping bag is good to +40.

 

Vision, goals, means, ... and then roll up the sleeves.

 

YIS

[Stosh]

morale is at an all-time low in many of the troops/crews I have come in contact with. We spend so much time on activities we spend very little time on group dynamics and satisfaction levels.

 

Does the program create excited and interested boys or do excited and interested boys generate program?

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

I believe the latter. The leadership psych should come as part of the activities.

 

Have em camp near a field suitable for flag football, frisbee, and running their heads off. Create a "Patrol Games". Let them have fun.

 

For that campout, cook simple, carbo-loading and mineral loading food...

 

Take them to the State Capital (Cit in Nation required) for a visit. Camp em, but have them cook more deliberately! Take them to the local community pool as part of the trip.

 

Use the aids provided: National themes are introduced at Roundtable and are reinforced in program helps, Scouter, and Boy's Life.

 

If you create a great program, they will come!

[RangerT]

Speaking about problems the main one I see is that in Boy Scout troops the average age for a SM is 40-60 something, very few SMs or even ASM's are 20 - 30 something, at least in my council. When I turned 50 this year I decided it was time for me to hand on my crew to two young adults both in their late twenties. It was not because I couldn't keep up anymore, quite the opposite in fact, but the new leaders are now getting established and doing great, and so is the crew. They still come to the old man for advice and the teens still love to see me go on trips with them, but now I can pick and choose what I do. This means I am not stepping on the new leaders feet either, allowing them to shape the crew to their strengths, and even though some of us hate to admit it, sometimes some change is good.

 

As the COR/CC I can still be a lot of help to the advisors and the crew. If we don't encourage (aka push/force) these younger men and women to take leadership roles because we old duffers won't give up control then the troop or crew will suffer. Too many troops I have seen are one man shows, even as a SM and as an Advisor I always had a great group of assistants, young and old, scouting is not a one man show, most of the units that fail this is one of the main reasons why. Poor leadership leads to poor program and is a guaranteed path to failure.(This message has been edited by RangerT)

[insanescouter]

I believe that it takes both, motivated leaders and a strong program. However when you do not have the motivated leaders, energizing the program and following through with it will bring up their desire to not only participate, but plan out and run a fun adventurous program.

 

Activities are anything you do. They just have to be fun, challenging and active. If all they are is "ok boys, lets set down and talk about this merit badge" well of course everything else is down with it. If you get them out running around and doing things, as it relates to Scouting then everything else will follow. Also keep in mind what you think is a great program, the boys may not agree on.

 

Excitement comes from both the activity and those involved. It has to start some where. Just like we lead by example, we need to also as leaders be their to show our excitement.

 

There are tons of team building activites out there, that are fun and challenging. Here is a good example. Line the boys up against a wall, tell them that only half their hands and half their feet (of the group) can touch the ground. And that the whole group has to be connected. They have to move the group from that wall to that point over there (other side of the room, a rope line, what ever). Their is no wrong way to do this as long as they meet the rules mentioned above. The easiest solution I have seen is wheel barrow with the arms laced through the person next to you.

 

Another good one is say tent pitching ... no excitment right .. well what if some of the scouts were blind folded, another had a broken arm, another a broken leg oh and only one person or maybe no one can talk.

 

There are many such games / actives. There are more ideas at http://insanescouter.com/t276/files/g-team.html.

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[insanescouter]

I have a little bit of a problem with older Scoumasters and main leaders on the program side only because I have seen on the occasion that they are less enthusiastic and less likely to lead a more adventurous program.

 

I do want to note there are many older Scout Leaders out there doing a great job and even actively doing some of the more adventurous activities.

 

How many of you know what happens when you take "Outing" out of Scouting?

 

All you have left is "Sc" which in a Friends of Scouting pitch becomes dollars and cents by drawing a line through each of the two letters.

 

Let me ask this question when you think of an adventurous program what do you think of?

 

(I will post my thoughts later)...

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[red feather]

Having been with the troop that I serve for almost 14 years and the last two as SM, the thing that has been a changing factor in the troop is on 4 levels.

 

First: Laying the groundwork of 'personal responsibility' of the scouts and adults for the troop and their own advancement. Once the scouts realized that the adults were not going to do it for them but would assist them in the accomplishment of scouting goals they have started to step up and embraced the fact that they would have to do the work.

This is currently in its second year and is showing great promise. The program could be better and it could be a lot worse. The scouts are realizing that if they want to have really neat o'nites they need to put in a little bit of effort to make it happen.

 

 

Second: Expectations! If scouts are expected to act as scouts and perform as scouts they will act as scouts and perform as scouts. Even the little things of showing pride in the scout salute, scout sign, uniform and being part of "their" troop. This takes involvement of all the scouts and adults buying into this. Not easy, but as with the scouts if there are expectations of the adult leaders they too will step up and perform as scout leaders/mentors. Not to mention creating an adult patrol and performing as such. Expect the PLC to act as a PLC. Teach them how to hold meeting and perform from month to month. Biggee one that is.

 

Third: Get the adult leaders involved. Outdoor program leaders assist the PLC in planning the outdoor program and provide a resourse that the PLC can access. Indoor program leaders assist the PLC in utilizing these resources. They also work on teaching the PLC and other scouts in how to become leaders.

 

Fourth: Letting the parents know of the 'expectations' and that the adults leaders of the troop are not the only ones involved in the growth of their sons in scouting. The more the parents are involved in some level the more resources the scouts have and the more the scouts can learn.

 

As SM, I have worked hard to get more adults involved. One thing that I have seen is if the scouts see adults wearing the uniform and believing in the program of scouting the more the scouts are willing to buy into the program. I have no sons in the troop they are both Eagle and are getting their own lives started. I have been informed that the adult leaders now serving the troop are glad that they have an 'old timer' involved to teach them. As scouting is for they youth, you cannot have a successful program without active adult involvement. Gotta work both fronts.

 

Recently told the troop that they were starting to progress from a boy lead troop to a scout lead troop. Lots of smiles all around. They are getting there. Both the scouts and the adults.

 

Maybe a fifth level: As an adult leader with life experiences and both formal and informal training, do things on overnights that maybe the scouts are not capable of doing yet. Tarp tenting, chicken cordon bleu, utinsiless cooking, hammock camping, etc. etc etc, whatever. Expand their envelope of possibility. Maybe be someone that years later the scout will remember that 'crazy leader' that did such and such and also remember that they did it too.

 

Will Rogers once said: "The only thing wrong with boy scouts is that there are not more of them."

 

yis

[jambo]

Insane Scouter, I wonder if I am not insane myself (ha,ha,) You are 99 % correct. A good Program in Scouting is very important...I am not going to re mill what has been said before on this site. But, there are questions that bother me,why our national planners, are not in tune with the volunteers ? Or, is it they lost the concept that it is a program for the " Boy". and not how much financial gain or profit we have can out of the program.You must of had a great Scoutmaster, at your military base, who guided , inspired and led your unit. They are the the dying breed, who received their training in leadership in the military, and not necessarily at our training courses. My days in Scouting is numbered, I pass on the baton to you ,younger guys. Three cheers for Scouting, jambo

 

 

 

[Pack378]

To start of with kudos on the website... I just seen it for the first time today....

 

As of right now our charter organization has a pack, troop, and crew. As of three years ago our pack had 7 boys. Our pack now has over thirty. Our Troop has 7 boys with only 3 active. I truly think that besides the "program" I believe tapping into the local packs is the way to build up recruitment. Most boys join scouting as cubs. It is rare for a boy to join as a Boy Scout. I think that recruitment in Cub Scouts is the key.

 

After a boy is recruited by the Cubs it is up to the Adult leadership to keep the boys involved. I have to say if you really want to have a strong troop you have to get involved with the Cub Scout Packs that feed your troop. Back to what I was saying our troop has 3 active boys, as of December when our boys cross over our troop will have 9 active boys. By the time my son who is a wolf, joins the troop we should have at least be where you are at with 15 to 20 something active boys.

 

I think Cub Scouting is the Key or the down fall of scouting, depending on Leadership!

 

 

[insanescouter]

Yes, link a Troop to at least one pack is important. As long as that Troop will provide Den Chiefs, actively work with the pack, set up special events with the pack, invite Webelos on occasional campouts, etc.

 

There are many reasons I believe that fewer Webelos are crossing over into Boy Scouts, but that is probably a topic for another thread (which has been on this forum a few times already).

 

Jambo, I have been told more then a few times that you have to be a little bit insane to be a Scout Leader. I think at least to a point that is true, but you have to also have a good heart and a strong back. No matter how many times one has been around the block there is always a place for them in Scouting. It may not be Scoutmaster, it may be on the committee or as a counselors, but there is always something. I am sure I speak on behalf of all Scouters when I say we hate to lose you.

 

My dad has tried to retire several times, and some how is still the Scoutmaster. I can of think he is a lot like Lynn Simons (what ever his name was) the Scoutmaster from Follow me Boys movie ... he will still be Scouting in his final days.

 

My dad is in it not for the BS in Boy Scouts, but for the Scouts, the future, the adventure, and even that occasional hug. If you were to ask me which of the Scout Leaders I was most influenced by as a lad, taught me the most, and helped me the most I would say my Dad with a tear in my eye and a heart full of pride.

 

I have to give a bit of background... I was a difficult child with so many problems that they couldn't be counted. Most of which I have now learned to live with but here is a short idea: ADHD, Dyslexia, short / long term memory problems, coordination problems, speech impairments, among other problems. My dad had to tackle me twice for will we will refer to it as discipline problems. I have found out long after this the committee tried to kick me out a few times, and each time my dad fought for me. I was not really a bad kid, a bully, really I was the opposite very timid and really a chicken. My problem was I had no social skills, and still have trouble in that area. Another reason I tend to do better behind a computer then on the phone or even in person. Over the years I have gotten much better, but still deal with the problems. Give you an idea what one can do I graduated High School with a 3.43 gpa and College with two AA degrees in computers with a 3.56 gpa which put means I graduated honor roll and on the deans list.

 

You will see me often stand up for that trouble scout saying the worst thing we can do is kick them out. Scouting is a powerful tool and does create miracles. I am walking proof. After all look at my gpa's, consider I earned Eagle, I am a Brotherhood in the OA, I am Woodbadge trainined, and I even run my own business on the side.

 

Ok my babble is over, I think I will start a new thread: "What has Scouting done for you"

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[jambo]

Mr. Insane: I enjoyed your babble very much, jambo

[insanescouter]

I am glad some one enjoys my babble

 

I use to get so pissed when I was Webelos den leader. I would have parents come up to me and say "Johnny is ADHD, you need to treat him special" needless to say it took a lot of self control to smack the parent silly. Instead I would go, let me tell you about myself. I always got the kid to join the den, and the parents were always surprised at how when not treated special or looked upon differently how "normal" they could be.

 

This is not to mean they did not need special help, now and then, but overall they could do anything the others could do as long as you were patient and would tell them how to do the same thing 10 different ways until they understood it.

 

I have that problem I do not think or remember things the same others seem to. They way I store that data in my head and the way i retrieve is a bit different. When I was in my senior year of High School I made the decision to stop using my problems as an excuses and learn to live with and lead a normal life. About 5 years later I was no longer on medication. Two years as a devil 18-19 year old because I did not know how to interact with others or control myself (because the meds were doing it for me). Now I have been off the meds for like 10 years. People go you do have those problems, you most have out grown them. No! I still have them, I still fight internally with them everyday.

 

I still to this day really enjoy mentoring the pre-teens that have the array of learning disabilities. I have even done it a few times for kids I never meet, just knew online.

 

I am going on and on again ... so I will end here, with an open invitation to pick my brain or to ask for help with a lad in your group.

 

Scott Robertson

http://insanescouter.org

[jambo]

The scouter who is insane ! (ha,ha) Like anywhere else we have here , people who know what they are saying, some just repeat the same dialog that the national is teaching,,,this is a reason we are in disrepair with this 'boy run' program, and the best we can become is a mediocre unit, with'bsa' standing for ' baby sitters association ', and not a rough and tough Scout unit. Every boy wanted to come to our meetings, because it was challenging,active,informative and a learning process. Here is just one example:

 

Pre-meeting with the leaders ( ASM. SPL. SM. and JASM )....while we had this briefing meeting to outline the schedule and to maximize leadership. where needed ,..... a JASM would conduct a game with the entire Troop ( volley ball, murder ball etc )

 

Opening ceremony, conducted by one of the Patrols who was assigned by SPL. ( the more imaginative the better )

 

Then we had a uniform inspection by SPL. Who would inspect the PL's first then the PL's do the reverse inspection of the other patrol. We held inspections only once a month. Rewards and awards were given to the best looking uniform .

 

CPR demonstration by qualified Red Cross official, were every one participated.( The theme for this month was First Aid )

 

Patrol corners, where scouts would get together to plan out there next overnight activity, and give their PL ideas to present on the next PLC meeting. And Scouts of lower rank would have advancement by their PL or APL.

 

Competition in one of the Scout skills between Patrols conducted by an ASM, or JASM or leadership corp member.

 

Scoutmaster Minute and Information session...( where we would darken the room, put up an artificial council fire ) Where the SM or ASM would give an inspirational talk, and praise scouts for doing well. Then the Troop was dismissed by the SPL.

 

A de-briefing meeting held again with the Troop leaders, outline next weeks activity, or discuss with committee the assistance we would need from them.

 

Yes, here I go, babbling along. I have to go...jambo

 

 

 

 

[CNYScouter]

It all has to do with program.

 

A few years ago I went shopping for a new Troop when I felt the Troop we were in just wasnt delivering a good Scouting program and were reluctant to make any changes.

After checking out at least a dozen troops and after talking with numerous other , in my opinion, many units just have no idea how to conduct a Scouting program.

 

The CC from the troop we were in said to me, after the 4th outing in 2 years was canceled due to lack of interest:

We have a great scouting program; its just that boys dont like Scouts any more.

This troops program was entirely put together by the CC and SM.

No Scouts in the Troop or any other adult had any say in the activities.

Committee was on paper only; the Troop had stopped using patrols altogether and never held PLC meetings. The SM and CC had decided it was just easier to do it themselves.

 

I had another leader say that I should check out his troop as they had a really good scout program.

When I got to the meeting it was like a library.

Scouts were sitting around with their noses in books not making a sound.

The UC was in a corner of the room teaching the NSP.

They handed me their yearly calendar.

It consisted of 4 cabin camping trips, a lock-in at an indoor go-kart place and one tent camping trip in June.

The summer camp they were going to was more like a country club.

When I remarked how small the troop was, there was only about 12 or 13 scouts at the meeting, the SM said that it was less than half the Troop, they couldnt get the older scouts to attend and didnt know why.

 

After about three months in the new Troop we joined, they held a yearly planning session. No scouts, adult only.

 

I was told at this meeting that the Committee had decided that the Troop wasnt going to be boy lead and the adults were going to do everything.

This was because the parents said the Scouts were so busy with other activities and they didnt have time to plan scout stuff too.

At this same planning session these same parents who decided to do everything complained that the Troop needed to do a better job at teaching Leadership.

Most of the parents in this troop saw making Eagle as just something else to put on a college application.

An ASM of this troop told me they couldnt get boys to join the troop because it was an upscale community and the parents had the money so their kids did other activities instead of Scouts. Yet in another upscale community in our council, 25 miles to the west, they have 54% of the TAY in the communities Pack and Troop.

The big difference is the program.

 

One of the reasons I started a Sea Scout Ship was I was tired of seeing adult leaders shrug their shoulders and say that kids didnt like scouts anymore as why they cant recruit scouts or keep boys in there units.

 

I was meeting Troops that had to turn away kids because if they grew any bigger they didnt have a place big enough in the community to hold their meetings (they had 80+ scouts).

 

A few months back there was a Troop from our council highlighted in Scouting magazine. This troops has held a monthly outdoor activity for over 35 years straight. In a community of only 350 people this troop has almost 40 Scouts.

 

When I meet Troops like these I find it hard to think that kids dont like Scouts anymore.

 

It all has to do with program.