Not enough drivers

[CNYScouter]

The Ship is attending an event later this month and it looks like there may be an issue with not enough parents have stepped up to drive.

The event we are going to is far enough away that the driver would most likely have to stay.

I dont feel right in asking the 2nd leader going to drive as she is a member of our CO, has no kids in the Ship and is willing to pay her way otherwise.

 

Do you cancel the event for every one?

If not how do you decide who goes and who stays?

How does your unit handle this?

 

Money is due this week for the final head count and it may not turn out to be an issue but I would like to have an answer if this situation arises.

 

[John-in-KC]

Have you read G2SS recently? Venturers CAN DRIVE THEMSELVES.

 

http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss12.html#a

 

4. The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions:

Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted)

No record of accidents or moving violations

Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders

 

 

Boldface denotes National policy.

 

Note the words: ANY VENTURING EVENT. That means crew/ship.

 

These are older teens, this should be part of their planning. Is there a reason you let the Ship get to the 11th hour over a logisitic challenge? Are you going to leverage it?

 

Now, if the issue is there aren't enough sets of usable wheels and seatbelts, is there someone with a van you can borrow? Pickup trucks with 2 belts aren't exactly an efficient way to transport folk.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[CNYScouter]

Unfortunately the Ship only has 2 youth members above 18 and neither is around much.

Getting one of them to drive isnt an option.

 

This is the first event the Ship has taken on the responsibility to plan and make it happen.

Ive taken a step back so far and let them run with it and I now see this being a hole.

 

When we sat down to plan going arranging enough transportation was one of the few tasks that really needed to be done.

 

Ive reminded the activity chair for the event numerous times since then whats needed to be done.

 

Hes given me a verbal list of who has said they want to go (why I know there is not enough drivers) but no money has been collected nor a written roster been put together to turn in to the event staff.

 

One of the reasons things are coming down to the last minute because almost the whole ship has said they want to go but no one is willing to pay until the last minute.

Ive seen this problem in every unit Ive been involved with.

 

Until money is turned in and a roster is put together I dont know if this is a problem or not

I need to decide what to do if the situation does arise.

 

[Stosh]

The solution is simple.

 

If the rides are limited, first-come, first-served. Those that turn in their money, get the existing spots. Anyone showing up late either figures out their ride or stays home.

 

1) this gives everyone equal opportunity to go.

 

2) everyone gets their $$ in early

 

3) if there's a shortage of seats, there is plenty of lead-time to seek out others to drive. If no one steps up, then those without rides stay home.

 

4) everyone knows what's going on at any given time.

 

The problem will persist maybe once or twice once this policy gets into place, but until people are convinced you're serious, they'll keep pushing the envelop. Spell out the limits of what can be done and live with them.

 

I've had to "leave behind" a few kids over the years, but you'd be surprised how many of their parents got them there anyway. They weren't happy about it, but the kids were there.

 

Stosh

[anarchist]

CNYScouter,

 

in the distant past...when we did have the problem...once and it caused a cancellation of a major trip..."we go as a unit or we don't go at all!" Then our Scoutmaster at the time simple sent out word that since we did not have enough volunteer drivers...in the future every Scout parent was to show up with their scout "expecting to transport their own son to the activity"....many, many parents put their collective heads together and "tah-dah!" suddenly we had enough drivers...has not been a problem since..."no volunteers = everyone drives = enough volunteers" funny isn't it?

 

you know, if we didn't have to deal with parents who believe BSA means Baby Sitters of America this would be a much "funner" game!

 

anarchist

[John-in-KC]

CNY,

 

Reread the guide. You're not limited to over 18.

 

OVER 16 MAY DRIVE AND DRIVE OTHERS TO VENTURING EVENTS, subject to limitations of local law and the policy as evoked in the Guide.

 

Is the issue access to wheels and seatbelts, or is the issue actually drivers for enough wheels and seatbelts?

[Beavah]

I think it would be just fine for ship members to drive themselves, eh? Remember, over 16 can drive for Venturing events, with appropriate permissions.

 

I think it's also a fine thing to ask the 2nd leader if she is willing to drive. The worst she can say is "no." Givin' people an opportunity to do a good deed is a good deed.

 

Some units borrow a bigger vehicle. You can also rent bigger vehicles, and add to da cost of the trip.

 

When this happens, one troop in our area uses da record of past driving by parents. Boys whose parents have done the least amount of driving in the last year are dropped from the trip until the number of kids matches the number of vehicles. They almost never have to "really" do it.

 

Given all your headaches with late signups usin' "pay as you go", maybe you want to consider adoptin' a longer-run calendar and dues. Pay dues for the quarter, come on anything (or nothing). I've always felt micro-billing outings was a losin' game.

 

B

 

[jambo]

NYC Scouters : , This is a national problem, and many units, like my former unit solved the problem...BUYING A USED SCHOOL BUS...All the adult leaders and some commitee men, contributed personal money to buy in good shape ,10 year old school bus.Our program has improved, becouse we could travel further even to the mountains in the winter, to enjoy the adventure of hunting of the "abdonimal snow man" with the scouts. We did not have to leave the poorer scouts home, becouse parents could not provide transportation. The money was returned to all the leaders, by charging the scouts $10 for each trip.We avareged 30 to 40 scouts per trip, We also had one escort vehicle with CB communication if we needed it.in It was cheaper do that, then have a parent use and abuse their vehicles. Well. it did not last to long. At one of our Camporee's we were told by the executive, that we are not allowed to have a bus, since it was aganst BSA Inc., policy. We were fortunate enough to have our church take on this responsibility...but we received a lot of flank having Scout decals on the bus. You see, where there is a will, there is a way. I hope, I was able to give you a constuctive suggestion, it up to you to implement it. jambo

[Beavah]

At one of our Camporee's we were told by the executive, that we are not allowed to have a bus, since it was aganst BSA Inc., policy.

 

Yah, I just love it when people quote fake policy, eh? Especially when all it does is hurt program. Gets my dander up right good.

 

Anybody else heard of such nonsense?

 

School bus is a darn sight safer way to travel than automobile. Plus, a well-decorated scout bus makes a fine rovin' advertisement for an exciting program.

 

Beavah

 

[nldscout]

Beavah

 

Your right, this is a crock, there is no policy on owning buses. There are lots of troops that own them.

 

That said owning a bus has lots of good points, and lots of bad points also.

[SSScout]

Everybody is either on the bus or off the bus...

 

A Scout unit owning a bus or the Charter Org owning the bus or a Scout parent owning the bus (A Scout is Trustworthy) should not be a problem...

The problems will appear with the State insurance and driver Licensing requirements. Check out the requirements with your State MVA or DMV. The Commercial Driver License and Classification laws are very specific as to size of vehicle, seating capacity, etc. Passenger endorsement and School Bus endorsement for your CDL are very specific too. 'Course once one has the CDL, jobs are easy to get.

Your Insurance Company will be very specific about WHO is allowed to drive the Church/Troop/Camp bus. Discount rates will be available to folks that certify a certain level of training and safe record. Check it out...

 

What ever happened to the Automobile Driving Merit Badge?

[Eamonn]

Sure the problem at hand is the lack of drivers.

You can make a list of your options and share the list with the QD.

Lots of ideas here as to what the options are.

But what is the real problem or problems?

Lack of adult support?

Poor planning?

Bad communication?

Once you fix the real problems the little ones tend to fix themselves.

Ea.

[acco40]

In our unit (troop) it is not first come first served, drivers get to pick riders. Don't burden the volunteers who do step up to drive.

[Oak Tree]

Hmmm, good question. Not sure what we would do. We've been low on drivers a couple times, but our activities chair will call around to the parents, asking each individually if they'd be willing to drive. If it really appears that the trip would be in jeopardy, we've always had someone step up. Sometimes it's just to be a driver and not stay for the trip.

 

All of the potential suggestions above are interesting, and they all represent a negative consequence that should encourage better participation in the future.

 

But I'm with Eamonn on this one. Building up your adult support - via communication, planning, shared vision, and even making sure that the adults are having fun - makes it less likely that these issues will arise.

 

In our case, I would certainly ask the second leader to drive. Most of our volunteers have been more than happy to do so, even the ones with no kids in the program. But you know her better, and may have more insight into whether she'd want to do so.

[jambo]

Transporting our scouts is a national problem. At first, at my former "ghetto type" unit," where four letter word was the norm ". We had to do it the hard way...WE WALKED...RODE THE BUS OR THE TRAIN ! Lucky if one of the fathers at least would transport the heavy Troop equipment.The troop program was declining , and the troop was losing membership . The US army, did help us sometimes, for a while...until someone complaint this , to the Council.After that ,d we could not get this privilege anymore from the military. We did not give up ! I noticed the so called " well to do...or rich Troops, have plenty of parents with latest model vehicles, could easily assist their unit in transportation. But, that was not the case with us. My boys could not afford uniforms,camping equipment, summer camp fees and etc. But, one thing we generated with the boys is " CAN DO " spirit.

Some of you doubt me, when I say, that the council has nothing against Troops having their own bus , titled under the Troop's number , If you are still confused on this issue.?...Call your National, Regional, and local Executive...and pose this question. On many dozen of training courses that I have taken , we were informed that the National does not sanction the Troops owning property, boats,buses and etc. And they also informed us ,that they can be taken away...since under the so called " BSA by laws " it belongs to the Boy Scouts of America "... As you know, we solved this problem, by having the bus registerd under our sponsor's name.

I know you guys, like when I give examples :

 

....... " Many moons ago I visited the Scouts in Thailand ( Siam) ...the Scout Association there , has an arrangement with the city to provide their scout units with FREE bus transportation for outdoor outings into the country side. What is our Scout association doing to assist Troops to get their boys out into the outdoors , at no cost ????. You ask the question...and I will be waiting for the answer ?".

Watch for my other " threads ', AND YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING NEW ! (HA,HA,)

Happy Scouting, jambo