District taking camporee away from troop

[t158sm]

In June the troop volunteering to host the fall camporee had the date they selected approved by the district chairman. At that time there were no known conflicts in either the district or council schedules. As I have heard via the grapevine, this date was the only one that fit in with the members of that troops schedule. Now it seems that a council training course is also slated to be held the same weekend and an estimated 13 members of the district from several units will be involved in the training course. The issue of the conflict was brought before the district committee. The troop hosting has said there is no way they can move the date for the camporee. A vote was taken by the committee who decided to leave the camporee and the date as is. But, certain members in the district can't seem to leave things alone. Last night we had our annual program preview conference and they managed to call a "special" committee meeting at the end of the ppc. Once again the issue of the conflict was reopened this time with a certain whine from those several members piercing the air. Somehow it was determined that the activities committee would meet with that troop to discuss the matter yet again. meanwhile no plan whatsoever has even been mentioned if this troop does not host the camporee. These members seem to think that if they can't go to the camporee then no one will. Perhaps that would be fair?

I've had conflicts in the past too. Sometimes I went one way and my troop another, no big deal. I made a decision and went with it. Sometimes you have to sacrafice for the good of the whole. It saddens me but a few of my fellow Scouters seem to have yet to learn what Scouting really means.

[John-in-KC]

It's not what date works for the host Troop.

 

It's not what date works for the District Committee.

 

It's the date that works for the Troops (and visiting Webelos II Dens) in the District.

 

That's why events like Camporee are usually pretty well locked in to a specific weekend, year to year: We can count on them. If the date happens to be the weekend of the big college football rivalry that year, too bad, so sad: Bring a radio.

 

Did the Troop sign up for Program support, or Program and Administration support? If it didn't sign up for Administration support, and the District folk handle the $$$, then it's time for all to come to the table and hammer out a compromise. That compromise may mean the District Chairman going to the Council President and asking for an alternate training date. It may mean the Troop surrenders the program. It may mean the DE finds another Professional to cover funds collection.

[Beavah]

Yah, I dunno if this conflict is a critical one or not. I suppose if a lot of troop SM's were involved in training it might be difficult.

 

But if it is a conflict that needs to be resolved, the easier thing to move is the training weekend. It affects fewer people. It's also the polite thing to do, since it seems like the training weekend was scheduled after the camporee plans were already in place, eh?

 

I dunno why yeh couldn't over lap the things either. Ain't it better to do trainin' in camp anyways?

 

Beavah

 

[t158sm]

Perhaps a little clarification is needed.

There is no set weekend for camporees in our district. The host selects the date and it's either approved or not. Other units have virtually no say in the process. Many (like mine) adjust their schedule around the camporee.

 

Other than the 13 affected no other conflict has been memtioned by any other unit in the district.

 

The fall camporee usually is geared much more towards troops rather than packs.

 

There is no such thing as program or administration support in our district. If help is needed it's pretty much asked for on an individual basis. (SM Bob would you mind running an orienteering course at the camporee.)

 

The training course, well you see it happens to be Wood Badge. However it happened this was not available to the apppropriate people involved in this district process, It's date will not change.

 

Of the 13 people, less than half are on the troop level. Most of these in positions other than SM or ASM.

 

If this troop does not hold the camporee, there will be no camporee or any alternative at all.

 

 

[moxieman]

What Beavah said at the end of his post.

 

We've done this several times--offered training opportunities for the adults at district camporees. AND our training (like all other districts in our council) is open to any registered adult leader regardless what district/council they are from.

 

Some of our best attended training events have taken place at camporee.

 

Why can't the Council compromise on this one and offer training at the camporee? ESPECIALLY, if the district (the troop that volunteered) had set the date of that camporee before Council decided to make that a training weekend?

[John-in-KC]

"If this troop does not hold the camporee, there will be no camporee or any alternative at all."

 

"There is no such thing as program or administration support in our district."

 

Someone needs to get the Council Commissioner involved in this mess.

 

No standing date for Camporee?

 

No support from the District?

 

How in the Sam Hill is this council, somewhere in Alabama, fulfilling its obligations to Chartered Partners under the BSA Charter Agreement???

 

IMO, this is far, far beyond what we at this forum can do for help. T158SM, call you Council Commissioner and SE. Do it Monday Morning. Ask for a business visit with the Council Key 3 and your District Key 3.

 

This is sickening. I'm glad you're there for the youth, T158, but the support you're supposed to get isn't there.

[t158sm]

John:

This is simply my view as an outsider. Neither myself nor my troop has any part in this except as a potential attendee at the camporee.

We have hosted camporees in the past (1994 and 2004) and I know what was involved in setting up and the running of those camporees as well as others where I assisted.)

For the most part my active role in either the district or council has been over for quite a few years.

I played my full part on both fronts for several years.

The point of my post wasn't to find a solution to this mess but only to express my displeasure over the pettiness and selfishness I witnessed by some in our district.

[Eamonn]

"In June the troop volunteering to host the fall Camporee had the date they selected approved by the district chairman."

"The training course, well you see it happens to be Wood Badge."

While of course I don't really know!!

It kinda sounds as if the District Chairman made a mistake.

Wood Badge courses take a lot of planning and the dates are set a long time in advance.

While it might not seem fair, Council events such as a WB course do trump District Events.

Having been a District Training Chairman and WB Course Director, I know I would not want any other activity going on that might give people an excuse to not attend WB.

Have to admit to not being very keen on Troops hosting District Events. These event should be there for the Troops to participate in and enjoy. That's why we have a District Activities Committee. I can see that someone with a special skill might be asked to do his or her bit, but having a unit "Host" the event is not such a good idea.

Ea.

[RangerT]

I agree with "E", a district event is exactly that, it is not and never should be the responsibility of a single unit. It sounds to me like your district committee is malfunctioning, to say the least, and its up to all the scoutleaders at roundtable to demand acountability from your district leaders and your DE. It sickens me to see boys suffer because the adult scouters are acting so petty. Time for some reshuffling of district positions. What a bunch of petty bull c--p if you ask me, we are there to serve the youth not our own self interests, and we wonder why we keep losing more youth every year, it seems perfectly clear to me.

[scoutldr]

I agree this is ridiculous. I see no reason why both events can't continue...

 

1. Scouting is for the boys...to cancel a youth-centered event because of an adult training event is just wrong.

 

2. Just based on numbers, say a District Camporee would attract 500 people (youth and adult). How does that compare to WB which may involve, say, 5% of that number from the district (all adults)?

 

3. Any unit that can't attend a camporee because one or two of its adults is attending WB is a unit in trouble.

 

4. To force a unit to cancel an event that they volunteered to plan and host is wrong. If the dates had been agreed upon in advance by the district committee, then it needs to continue.

 

5. If this happened to me, it would be a cold day in Irving before I ever volunteered to do anything for the district or council again.

[Eamonn]

Lately scoutldr I have found myself agreeing with most of what you post, however this time I don't.

 

"Scouting is for the boys...to cancel a youth-centered event because of an adult training event is just wrong."

Sure Scouting is for the youth members, but trained leaders provide a far better program. So while not holding one event or missing a Camporee might be sad , in the long run the program is far better.

 

"Just based on numbers, say a District Camporee would attract 500 people (youth and adult). How does that compare to WB which may involve, say, 5% of that number from the district (all adults)? "

A full WB Course with 8 adult patrols with each patrol having eight members (64 adults) has the potential of reaching thousands of Scouts.

The course I directed had our SE as a participant, the Council Cub Camping Chairman along with a few District types.

I'm unsure if you can really make this into a numbers game?

 

"Any unit that can't attend a Camporee because one or two of its adults is attending WB is a unit in trouble."

I'm not sure if that's true, but I do think a unit that misses a Camporee because the leaders are at WB will benefit more from the leaders attending the course than from being at the Camporee .

 

"To force a unit to cancel an event that they volunteered to plan and host is wrong. If the dates had been agreed upon in advance by the district committee, then it needs to continue."

Clearly someone messed up (The District Chairman??)

The dates should not have been agreed on to start with.

In my view a unit ought not be planning and hosting the event.

The District Committee should have been doing everything they could to help support the Council and the Council run WB Course!! When this was brought up at the District Committee meeting (If it was brought up?? As it should have been.) Where was the Training Chair? Our Council Calendar is planned 18 months in advance, didn't anyone at the meeting have a copy?

 

Not wanting to hijack the thread, but....

IMHO.

Districts need to take care that they are not doing too much.

Too many District events and Camporees get in the way of the Troop program, in most cases they don't really allow the Scouts to develop any real leadership skills (Planning and the like) They don't follow the theme that a Troop might be trying to follow and can just get in the way.

Worse still at times there is an expectation that Troops ought to attend and when they don't they are seen as not supporting the District.

When in fact they are not there to support the District and the District is supposed to be supporting them. (End of rant.)

Ea.

 

 

 

 

 

[nldscout]

I fail to see why both cannot go one at the same time. WB is not going to affect this in any way except that 13 older scouters cannot attend camporee, so what?

 

Its pbvious that location is not the issue, just that these 13 old "Poop-Heads" can't have thier way. Time for them to get over it

[t158sm]

Yes the district chairman "messed up." The date should not have been scheduled for the camporee but it was, back in June. Why wait two months and then decide there's an issue?

 

It appears that neither event will change dates, but the district may force one of them to cancel.

 

An extremely successful camporee in the district is one that has 100 Scouts attending, Cubs not counting. Sorry I don't keep up with the Cubs. There are 16 Scout troops in the district, half with less than 10 members. We are the smallest district in the council.

 

A troop, troop/pack, troop/crew has always hosted our camporees. This is simply the way its been done in my 29 years in Scouting.

 

"If this happened to me, it would be a cold day in Irving before I ever volunteered to do anything for the district or council again."

 

Just what I fear will be the end result.

 

"Any unit that can't attend a Camporee because one or two of its adults is attending WB is a unit in trouble."

 

So far no one has spoken up and said that their unit will be unable to attend because of the WB course. A few Cubs may not be able to spend the night because their parents are not available, but they will still be able to spend the day at the camporee with their pack.

 

We teach the Scouts to adapt, use initiative and to make choices, can't those in the district do the same.

[John-in-KC]

Mr t158sm,

 

Again, I strongly recommend a business visit with you, your Council Key 3, and your District Key 3. You may want to bring your COR along.

 

Someone isn't holding up the BSA Charter Agreement, and from what you say, I don't think it's the unit serving Scouters.

[t158sm]

John:

My reply to that would be no.

I have already stated my intention for this post.

My battles in the district and the council are in the past. There are many in the district who have been in Scouting a far shorter time than myself that think they can do the better job. I let them.

I limit my place to within my troop by choice.

 

Once upon a time I was everywhere - Wood Badge staff, JLT staff, SLD staff, train the trainer, OA, helping other units, you name it. Then something happened - I got sick, very sick and almost lost my life. That was 10 years ago. I haven't been on a training course since.

John you have stated before that you are a Diabetic. Diabetes and the complications that I live with daily will one day all too soon end my time as Scoutmaster. I prefer to spend my time as I do, working with the boys. The people in the district have all changed. (except thankfully for some old and dear friends who think as I do.) Let the newer ones think I'm a loner. I've already been to where most of them will never travel.