Scoutmaster banning scouts from meeting!? Is this right?

[Bradwillkall]

About a year ago, my troop began planning a trip to Yellowstone National Park for 2008. We set up a seperate committee incuding boys and adults. My scoutmaster though, is not in favor of the trip what-so-ever because he thinks that the cabin we are staying in is too nice for Boy Scouts. A few months ago he came to a Yellowstone committee meeting for the first time so far. The only thing that he said though is that he is banning all of the boys from the yellowstone meetings because it is not a trip that we should be planning. All of the other adults though want us to be there so that we can give our opinion on what we want to do on the trip. The adults do not want to tell him this because it will start an argument, and he may then try to cancel the whole trip. Also, every few days he will bring up the trip to us and he keeps telling us that if we do not raise enough money or have enough boys go, that we will not be going on the trip. Is it right for him to ban us all from the meetings?

[Beavah]

Yah, my goodness. Thanks for writin' Bradwillkall, and welcome to the forums, eh?

 

What you're describin' is odd to me in all kinds of ways; separate committees, SM's not supportin' an excitin' youth idea, adult committee members doing planning.

 

Sometimes adults are just odd people, yeh know? We can't give up our own notions enough to make space for yours.

 

So a question for you and your mates: Is this your plan? You guys want to do a trip to Yellowstone and you're willing to do the work for it? And control the planning?

 

If so, then I think you proceed, and you take every obstacle that comes your way and work around it, climb over it, or blow it up. Every grand adventure and good deed has a bunch of nay-sayers to deal with. Don't let it get you down.

 

If you can't meet at the regular spot, well then get all your friends together and meet at Dennys, or the library after school, or Brad's house. Call and make your own reservations, get the job done and then tell the adults what the plan is. It's OK to listen and make compromises, of course (any cheaper cabins? good camping around?), because adults sometimes have good ideas. But stay involved, and make it happen! If your SM refuses to go, say things like "That's too bad, Mr. Jones, we would have liked you to come, but we understand. We'll find somebody else to be SM for the trip." Every time your SM or any adult starts to go negative on you, say something like "That's OK Mr. Jones, we have faith in ourselves even if you don't have faith in us."

 

You get the idea. Be smart, be sophisticated. Work with adults who will work with you, work around the rest. We'll even help yeh if we can. But no surrender, no retreat!! Your success will be quite a legacy that will change your troop for years to come, and Yellowstone will be a blast (be sure to get into da backcountry there, too... it's awesome, and away from the crowds).

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

Six miles east of Yellowstone's east entrance is Central Wyoming's BSA Camp Buffalo Bill. A rustic but nice Boy Scout Camp. We attended this year from 1,000 miles away. It was a nice week, had a good time and spent 2 days in Yellowstone following for the touristy thing. We did not stay in Yellowstone at all. We left Camp Buffalo Bill on Saturday morning after a week at camp, swung through the park along lower loop and stayed in a private campground in West Yellowstone. Then on Sunday went through the park in the upper loop.

 

This trip included many side trips, a week at a rustic (bring your own tents) and neat camp (the grizzly bear went through the week before, all we got was a black bear walking through)

 

We also took in a quick tour and camping in Black Hills, Devil's tower, Custer's Battlefield, Cody Museum, Cody Rodeo, just to name a few. Any scoutmaster who thinks such a trip isn't scouting enough just isn't paying attention. Our boys will be talking about this summer camp experience for years.

 

Somehow from your post, I get the feeling there's something else going on that isn't evident on the surface. A trip like this would make any troop envious.

 

Stosh

[Bradwillkall]

If it was not for this trip, there would be a few scouts who would not be interested in scouting any longer. There are even a few eagle scouts from our troop who are coming back to help plan and fundraise for the trip. Out of the whole troop of 22 people, 20 are planning on attending the trip, and we have seven adults who are interested in going on the trip. And even with this, my SM is still trying to discourage us from making the trip happen. He has seperated the trip from the troop saying that no troop money will be used on it at all. I was the one in the beginning who was all gung-ho about the trip, and was pushing for it really hard. Many believe that is why he banned all of the scouts, so that the persistance and high enthusaism would be cut out from the planning. I just don't understand why a scoutmaster should be so negative towards the planning of a great trip, and why the scouts shouldn't be allowed to have an input on the planning of it, isn't it supposed to be a "Boy Run Troop" anyway?

 

Another question, is it right for a scoutmaster to come into every PLC meeting and give the SPL a list of things he wants added to the list. Then he forces that list to take place on the calendar before anything that the scouts want to do? Every month we have a theme (i.e. cooking, first aid, warm weather camping, etc.) and every PL comes in to the PLC meeting with a list of ideas for things that we could do at the scout meetings. But they never happen because the SM's list is always forced upon us, with no say on our part. Is this right?

[packsaddle]

I agree with Beavah. Be smart, be polite, be firm. Do the trip, without him if necessary. I have taken student groups to Yellowstone and can provide more ideas if you're interested. I've been in love with Yellowstone since my first trip in 1957.

What time of year are you going and how long do you plan to be there?

[LongHaul]

Guys!!! Are we encouraging this youth to commit mutiny? What ever happen to supporting the volunteers? Bradwillkall, A Scout is courteous, he is also brave. As necessary as the SM is to a troop it is still the boys troop. It does sound like there is more to the story than you have told us. It also sounds like you have adult support from others in the troop which makes one think that your plans are not unrealistic. Go for it!

LongHaul

[Bradwillkall]

We are going in July of next year.

[Beavah]

LOL, Longhaul! Yah, not mutiny, eh? Maybe just a bit of polite subversion .

[scoutldr]

Just a minor detail...the SM does not decide how troop funds are spent. That's a Troop Committee function. If the PLC has presented their plan to the Committee and they have agreed to support it, the SM then has two choices...go on the trip or stay home.

[John-in-KC]

If there is a major difference between the Scoutmaster and his PLC, it's time for the Committee Chairman to contact the COR. It's time for some active program overwatch.

 

As to the youth, keep planning. If you have to, come to Troop Committee meetings, tell the CC you have a progress report, and go play basketball outside. I'll bet the CC and the Committee Members will be asking tough questions of the Scoutmaster.

 

The SM is the Program Officer, NOT the program dictator. At the same time, some further research into what will make the trip a big winner is always worth it. You're just over a year away from going; much of your planning will apply no matter where base camp is. Get online and see what your options can be.

 

Keep us informed, please.

[packsaddle]

July is OK. The earlier you can get there, the better. If there was any way you could arrive in late May or early June, you might get to watch the wolves and grizzlies taking young elk or buffalo soon after calving. The streams will still be flowing full and you'll have more snow to play in.

And you'll miss the really big crowds who arrive later in July (as well as those worst of all abominations, all those gargantuan motor homes).

Any plans as to where to camp? Oops, I remember that cabin thing. Where did you reserve cabins?

 

[Bradwillkall]

Unfortunately, we already made the cabin rentals. Our cabin is located in Ashton, Idaho, 45 minutes south of the west Yellowstone enterance. Before we stay at the cabin, we sre going to a high adventure camp in Salt Lake City for four days. A chartered bus is taking us from place to place, which I am told, would cut down on the traffic because there is a special bus enterance in Yellowstone.

 

Just another question for you guys. Is it right for a scoutmaster to tell a person, who has gone through NYLT and was the ASPL the year before, that he is not allowed to run for SPL because he is too lazy? I know that this person would not of won the election, but it is the whole moral of the situation. This boy said that he would rather run and loose than be told that he wasn't good enough to run at all. He was even brought to tears when our SM told him that he couldn't run. It just seems degrading to the boy .

[dancinfox]

We as adults always have to keep in mind that when we are working with youth, we are building character and citizenship. By demoralizing a youth, are we building up their character? If we didnt have people run for political office what would our government be like? No matter what the youth in our units are like we have to mold them the best we can. Sometimes we are successful and sometimes we fail, but we always have to give the youth the best example we can. If we arent, then are we living up to our training and why we are in the movement.

David Harrison

 

[packsaddle]

We'll work with what you have then, no problem. West Yellowstone is fairly convenient as an entrance and the town itself is fun too.

Traveling by bus will be slow and parking will limit your stops. You'll want to visit Mammoth but you probably won't spend much time there. It's a really interesting place but if you only see it once in a lifetime, it is less interesting than seeing the changes it goes through in time. The store has great coffee, ice cream, and souvenirs.

Norris Basin is close to the West Yellowstone entrance and it's the hottest and most active area of the park. If the so-called 'super volcano' ever erupts it'll probably start in that area. There are many thermal features there so Norris is probably worth most of a morning or afternoon.

The wildlife I mentioned will be more common up toward the Lamar River valley and elsewhere in that direction but you can see an amazing diversity other places by being carefully observant.

From the West Entrance you can also get across to the Canyon area fairly easily. That's worth half a day by itself and probably the second most crowded area. And, of course there's always the Old Faithful (most crowded) area and others on the way to that area. That's probably a day. After you see the other thermal areas, the West Thumb area is going to be kind of tame.

The Tower Falls area is worth a drive through and there are good opportunities to see wildlife at the thermal areas around there.

 

Last spring we spotted big horn sheep, mountain goats, falcons, eagles, great grey owls, wolves, coyotes, black and grizzly bears (at great distance), as well as the really common stuff, buffalo, elk, deer, marmots, etc. all in one day. Take good binoculars.

If you had the time, I'd point you out the NE entrance and up into the Beartooths. That's a great day too.

 

There are great hikes to do almost anywhere in the park. Just stay together. You're still young and worth keeping around for a while. If you go back country, try to find a can of the high-strength bear spray to take with you. Don't play with it, it's really powerful and if you get a whiff you'll be in serious pain. Bears won't likely get anywhere near a group of scouts and all the noise you'll be making anyway. If one of you IS attacked be sure to wrap your hands around the back of your neck and pull your knees up tight to protect your stomach. You'll be in perfect position to kiss your butt goodbye.

I always love that joke. Anyway, last spring I went solo (I'm old and expendable) off-trail in the backcountry and had a few great days. Found a grizzly kill and his(her?) bedding area nearby. Waited for a few hours but the bear never returned. Guess I smelled too bad. I found a great grey owl nest way up in a tree with one of them sitting on hatchlings. I found wonderful remote lakes with no evidence of human visitation whatsoever. Exquisite.

You guys just pull up a chair anywhere and enjoy. The park is a wonderland.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, Bradwillkall, sounds like da core issue that's troublin' you is that you don't like how your SM is doin' some things, or perhaps yeh don't even like your SM much. That makes it tough for us, eh, because we're only gettin' your perspective. It's hard to see clearly that way.

 

I think it's safe to say that most of the folks here are readin' some of your descriptions of your SM's actions and cringin'. For a highly experienced scouter, and da sorts of dedicated souls who haunt internet forums, it's safe to say we might handle things a bit differently. Encouragin' big trips, supporting youth planning, finessing election issues in kinder ways, etc.

 

None of us are perfect, though, and there's lots of fine adults in Scouting who don't yet have a lot of experience, or don't have da time to be quite as dedicated. Part of life, eh? While it's good to recognize someone's strengths and weaknesses, I want yeh to be careful about what you do with that knowledge. Being Kind applies as much to how you treat adults as it does your peers, eh?

 

So if you're recognizin' that your SM's talent or approach is limited in some areas, I'd encourage you to think about how to work with that. In what ways can you encourage him to lighten up a bit? In what ways do you know he's not ready to change, so you have to work around the weakness or provide additional support? In what ways might he have more knowledge/skill than you, and so you should trust him or at least listen more closely?

 

I think one of da coolest parts of growin' up in Scouting is learning earlier than in most activities that adults are human, too. That we really aren't always great "authorities" and that we need the help and insight of young people in many, many areas.

 

So try to be kind to your SM, while doing what you can to help out and offering feedback to both him and the troop committee as appropriate. Maybe your example of kindness will rub off, eh? Or maybe your feedback will help the committee decide on adjustments. Just keep workin' hard, and workin' together.

 

Beavah