What is Scouting?

[Beavah]

 

if one does not use the 8 methods to reach that end it isn't Scouting

 

Yah, this seems to be a topic which comes up here occasionally. I sorta agree with acco... the Aims don't get us to Scouting. Character and ethical choices are also the aims of every church youth ministry program (and they might do a better job of it than we do!). The Methods do a better job of defining what Scouting is, because they describe how we get boys to ethical choices. Yet o'course, perfect implementation of every one of the methods isn't required (or there would be no Scout Troops at all!), and even individual methods are optional. So how do we define what we are?

 

I think the expectations of the public are one way. I think the public views Scouts in a certain light. Leavin' aside the negative views, the public:

 

1) Expects Scouts to be strong, capable, independent outdoorsmen.

 

2) Expects Scouts to Be Prepared for emergencies - to have the strength, skills, and attitude to "help out" when needed, from rescues to providing first aid to relief work and community service.

 

3) To be good examples - patriotic, responsible, "manly and gentlemanly" young lads. To at least be capable team members, if not leaders.

 

Those are probably characteristics that apply as readily to the Worldwide Scouting Movement as to BSA brand.

 

What's your definition?

 

Beavah

 

[Gunny2862]

I'm having a hard time arguing with your definition...

[John-in-KC]

B,

 

I will add, if I may:

 

4) Expects Scouts to be able to make the tough decisions, doing the right thing, when other decisions are the easy thing.

[evmori]

B,

 

Excellent! Only thing I would add is honest.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Trevorum]

I'm not sure that I agree with John. Not that that isn't an admirable quality and one we try to teach our Scouts, but I'm not sure it is inextricably associated with Scouting.

 

However, I agree 100% with Ed: "Trustworthy" is one of the fundamental definitions of a Scout.

[scoutldr]

Scouting is a way of life.

 

"Be Prepared"

"On my honor, I will do my best"

"to help other people at all times"

"Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, etc"

 

And I can survive in the wilderness, swim, paddle, ride, hike, climb, make a compass or use a GPS, teach, cook, sew, launder, clean, change diapers, read, write, speak publicly, perform first aid, change my own oil, work hard, play hard, and be honest in all things. Everything I have, I worked for and paid for myself. I've not taken a dime of charity or govt handouts.

 

Nearly 100% of this I learned from Scouting (maybe not the diaper part!). Scouting provides the tools to make a productive, responsible adult.

 

And I raised two sons the same way to pay it forward.

 

It's one thing to go to meetings, do what you're told and receive badges. It's what you do the other 95% of your time that counts.

[SR540Beaver]

Beavah: "Yet o'course, perfect implementation of every one of the methods isn't required (or there would be no Scout Troops at all!), and even individual methods are optional."

 

Allow me to disagree. When looking at the end product, how we get there is very important. Think of the manufacturing process. Lets take a simple look at building a car. You need a frame, engine, tires, body, etc. Think of these as methods. Are any optional or less important than the others? Do we want a car that has an engine that can go 100 MPH but has boat trailer tires? Do we want a car with dump truck tires that has a lawn mower engine? What we want is a car where all the elements are equally matched. We want a "quality" car as the end product.

 

While we may never acheive true perfect implementation of the methods, it should always be our goal. It will produce the most well rounded scouts of all.

[Kudu]

What is Scouting? I agree with all of the listed expectations and with SR540Beaver's note that how we get there is what Scouting actually is.

 

However, if we wish the reverse the softening of Scouting we must understand that the "Eight Methods" is only a theory. Even the previous model (William Hillcourt's Methods of Scouting), should be viewed with a skeptical eye. The Patrol Method and the Outdoor Method should be so central to Scouting that they need not be mentioned as "Methods" anymore than the Food Eating Method or the Air Breathing Method.

 

Real Scouting is learning outdoor skills while camping in the woods by Patrols, with each Patrol at least 300 feet from from the next.

 

Real Wood Badge is learning the Patrol Method by learning outdoor skills in Patrols of Scouters, with enough theory thrown in to understand that Scouting is learning outdoor skills while camping in the woods by Patrols.

 

The Scout Way (killed in 1972) should be restored as the First Method of Scouting: "Scouting is a GAME not a SCIENCE" (emphasis in the original).

 

Real Advancement: Boys should be afraid to advance beyond 2nd Class, but morbidly drawn to it as to a rattlesnake or a black belt. Real Advancement is the "hard measure of accomplishment:" a final testing at each rank in an adult-free wilderness trek (called a "Journey") of increasing difficulty (2nd Class = 8 miles, 1st Class = 15 miles, Eagle = 50 miles, etc.). An ordeal. If needed in the 21st century for emergencies, adults who shadow a Scout's Journey should always be out of paint-gun range. Eagle Scouts should be rare, the absolute masters of outdoor skills. Public service should be from the heart and never included in advancement requirements. The rank of Eagle should be earned without thought for personal gain: Kill the cash-cow of lowered standards by revoking Eagle Scout from anyone who avows it on a school application or business resume.

 

Real Ideals: Scout Law can be memorized indoors, but can only be "learned" as the practical social nuts and bolts of getting along together while using outdoor skills camping in the woods by Patrols.

 

Real Adult Association: Adults should recognize opportunities to bond and advise while outdoors, not indoors. Real Scouting does not have Boards of Review, Scoutmaster Conferences, and Scout Spirit Requirements, but if retained in the 21st century should be convened the same distance from the parking lot as the midpoint of Journey of the rank being tested: adults interviewing a 2nd Class Scout should walk a total of 8 miles (4 miles in and 4 miles out), an Eagle Board of Review should be held 25 miles from the nearest parking lot.

 

Real Outdoor Method: Transfer all fake-Scouting "school-marm" sedentary rank requirements and Merit Badges (such as Citizenship, Environmental Science, etc.) to the profitable "Learning for Life Fat Camps" , along with all BSA summer camp dining halls. When conducted, indoor sessions should always be preparation for the next campout or training for public service (First Aid, Emergency Preparedness, Disabilities Awareness, etc.).

 

Real Uniform Method: A real Scout Uniform is the most practical clothing designed for learning outdoor skills while camping in the woods. All Uniform inspections should be held at least 4 miles from the nearest parking lot.

 

Real Patrol Method: The Patrol Leaders protect the honor of the Troop.

 

Leadership Development (invented in 1972) is the Great Satan of Scouting and chief predator of the Patrol Method. Real Scouting has no "Position of Responsibility" advancement requirements. Patrol Leader elections should be held at least four miles from the nearest parking lot. Real Patrol Leaders are the natural leaders most capable of guiding a Patrol of Scouts while practicing outdoor skills in the woods at least 300 feet from the nearest Patrol. See "Real Wood Badge" and "Real Adult Association".

 

Personal Development (invented in 1972) is a fake method.

 

Kudu

 

(This message has been edited by Kudu)

[John-in-KC]

Trev,

 

One of the Aims of the Grand Game is Character Development. The tools are

Cub Promise, Law of the Pack

Scout Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan

Venturing Oath

 

All our woods work is designed to inculcate those into a young man, be he 8 or be he (or she in Venturing) be 20.

 

I just spent a day at Scout Camp. A facility needed some loving volunteer attention between uses by program people. After the campers and their leaders left, I watched the youth staff decide what they were doing tonight. One option was the movies. Live Free or Die Hard was an option at the multiplex. They, not their Director or PD, were the ones who said: "Hey, that's R, and we don't need to see it on a work weekend."

 

Now, next weekend: I think they're all going to HP and the Order of the Phoenix.

 

They made the right call, completely on their own.

[packsaddle]

First, I want to say that I really like Kudu and for many reasons. I see his post as potentially antagonizing or even outrageous to some who may read it. So I want to offer pre-emptive defense and say that I read his post as advocacy of getting the boys into really fun, active programs in the outdoors. I consider thoughts such as his as sort of 'fundamentalist scouting' ideas. And I am very sympathetic to the spirit, if not the details.

 

I recognize that an Eagle advancement conference would be a rare event if adults were required to meet 25 miles from the nearest parking lot. Come on, I think the number of places on this continent that meet that qualification are quite limited, at least east of the Mississippi R.

 

I am in sympathy with his wariness of the 'sedentary' merit badges. But I believe the so-called 'Great Satan' of scouting is less well-defined than his rendition and his comparison to a myth tends to distract from the message...which is a vision of an ideal that almost certainly does not exist in real life. My troop, when I was a boy was pretty close, though, and I continue to marvel at how lucky I was back then.

But I, for one, appreciate the thoughts that Kudu's post has stimulated in my mind. I hope for others as well.

[John-in-KC]

Content removed. I'd be threadjacking rather than supportive of what I think B envisioned for this thread.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Kudu]

packsaddle writes:

 

"I recognize that an Eagle advancement conference would be a rare event if adults were required to meet 25 miles from the nearest parking lot."

 

This minor inconvenience would be more than offset by the subsequent weeding out of the wrong sort of adults :-/ An outdoorsman who hikes to such a meeting is not likely to deny a Scout his Board of Review over an issue with his Uniform.

 

"But I believe the so-called 'Great Satan' of scouting is less well-defined than his rendition and his comparison to a myth tends to distract from the message..."

 

OK, how about "Leadership Development is the Great Cuckoo Bird of Scouting?"

 

Many Cuckoo species are "brood parasites:" they lay their eggs in the nests of other birds. The Cuckoo chick usually hatches earlier and grows faster than the host's offspring. Have you ever watched a nature program on Cuckoos? The fat Cuckoo pushes the parents' chicks out of the nest and the tiny Warbler-sized parents work all day to feed the fat Cuckoo's open mouth, its rump and stomach extended over the edges of the little nest built to raise an entire clutch of much smaller offspring.

 

Likewise, "Leadership Development" has kicked the Patrol Method and the Outdoor Method out of Wood Badge and consumes all of its resources. We are feeding a fat brood parasite:

 

1. Troop Elections:

 

a) The introduction of Troop Elections for SPL (replacing pre-White-Stag PLC Elections for SPL) moved the leadership of the Troop from the Patrol Leaders in Council to the SPL (Troop Method Chain of Command, "Ask your SPL!").

 

b) Position of Responsibility (POR) requirements for Advancement and regular Troop-wide Patrol Elections timed to coincide with these new six month terms force average Scouts to run against more talented natural leaders because they need a POR position to advance, and Patrol Leaders with Scout Spirit will often sense that they are expected to step aside to "give someone else a turn."

 

2. Patrol Leader Training

 

a) With the introduction of the White Stag stuff we started teaching leadership theory rather than specific Patrol Leader skills, including how to organize Patrol Hikes and Patrol Campouts. While "times have changed," these, the primary activities of the Patrol Method, could still be done with adults in the distance.

 

b) Likewise, a Patrol Leader should be trained to train his Scouts how to test their cooking, camping, navigational, and problem solving skills deep in the woods (on the 15 mile "First Class Journey") as far away from the adults as possible.

 

Leadership Development, the Great Cuckoo Bird of Scouting, gets fat while the rightful offspring of training (Real Outdoor Skills learned within the Real Patrol Method) lie rotting on the ground below the nest!

 

Kudu

 

[packsaddle]

Yes, the brood parasite is a much better comparison and, unlike Satan, the cuckoo really does exist! Moreover, your point is well taken.

[Trevorum]

"... unlike Satan, the cuckoo really does exist!"

 

I'll bet that, given the total world population, there is no significant difference between the number of people who have seen a Cuckoo and the number who have seen Satan.

[packsaddle]

OK, what are you willing to wager and how do we decide who's right?

P.S. I'd like to see Old Nick too...know where I can get a glimpse? Or was that a typo and you really meant 'Santa'?