Lesson's from Latest Meeting

[BrotherhoodWWW]

First for the background:

My Scouting experience spans several decades with a 17 year break in the middle. I was recruited a couple of years ago when my son's pack at the time was in need of a Webelos Leader, then a year later The CubMaster said he would prefer to be a den leader so we switched. Fast forward to May 18 this year.... My oldest son earned and was awarded his Arrow of Light and I also transferred with him to his Troop. Since becomming the Webelos Den Leader I became trained and my DE recruited me to be an Assc. Chapter Advisor for the OA.

 

Since moving to the troop we have had one Committee meeting which I gladly attended, in fact I already sewed on the committee member patch. At that meeting I was asked to be the CC. Transfer papers had not yet been turned into the council so they would be changed to reflect my change, already. At the same meeting the SM announced that he would be absent for this weeks meeting. The meeting also planned the program for the month. I and one other parent were asked to help the Troop with this meeting and work on Orienteering. I suggested that I had an old Orienteering short course that required little more than a 100 foot rope and we dicided to use it.

 

The SPL was absent from both meetings. I had asked his parents to make sure he was a little early to the Scout meeting with the intention of explaining the Course to him so as to let the meeting and activity be boy run. With the SPL not present and since I did not go over with the ASPL prior to the meeting I ended up doing the course. Which, after it was over it was suggested by a PL that perhaps the course was layed out wrong. I promptly pulled the course description/ score card out of my pocket and after reading the first line said oops you are right. I had numbered it from east to west and it should have been west to east.

 

During the introduction I asked who had earned their Orienteering MB. The first Scout that raised his hand seemed to have some knowledge of the use of a compass. I was wrong! We buddied up the boys a young scout with an older scout since we were evenly split. I quickly observed that several of the older scouts were lost on how to use a compass, and the one with the MB was one of them.

 

Lesson's Learned:

It's best to have a back-up plan: I should have clued in the ASPL on the Course before the meeting.

 

Not safe to assume that those with the MB still retain the material.

 

Read and understand the instructions prior to doing something for the first time if it has been years since you last did it.

 

My question is should I ask the SPL's parents if they could encourage thier son to better fulfill his leadership position or should I just communicate that to the SM? (BTW the SPL's father and I years ago were partners as Reserve Police Officers. Still pretty good friends.)

 

[FScouter]

Since the adult committee planned the troop meeting with no input from the SPL and no discussion with him, why would it be important for him to be at the meeting?

[mdutch]

There lots of things here to talk about, however, one question I would like to ask is why you are communicating with the SPLs parents. Surly the SPL is mature enough to carry on a phone conversation.

[Beavah]

Yah, layers and layers here. Love your enthusiasm, Brotherhood. I'm sure you'll be an asset to your son's troop goin' forward. I think yeh should take some time and get re-oriented to da program, though, before you jump into too much.

 

To add to F's and meam's insightful comments, I've gotta ask you...

 

Do you want to be the CC or an ASM?

 

Everything you're describin' is an ASM's job, not a CC's. Those two ain't compatible. If you want to work with kids, be an ASM and assist the Scoutmaster toward buildin' a youth-run program. If you want to work with adults, be a CC, build a committee to support the kids and the SM - by getting out of program planning, and recruitin' some ASMs!

 

Either way, grab some of the books, get some trainin', visit some other troops, and get yourself re-acquainted with Boy Scoutin' on the adult side in 2007.

 

Kudos to the young man who knew enough to catch your mistake, though. Be sure to pass that along to da SM so the lad can be recruited to run the next orienteering event!

 

Beavah

 

[emb021]

Beavah touched on most of the things I would have said. If the SM couldn't have been at the meeting, it was the SM's job to make sure it was covered by his ASM(s).

 

If the SPL was doing his job, he should have known what was going on. If the SPL could not be at the meeting, then it was the SPL's job to make sure his ASPL was prepared to cover him.

 

Finally, (unless I misread your message), its not the job of the Troop Committee to be planning out the month's program/activities. That is the job of the troop's PLC. This is what he mean's by a youth-run program.

 

Now, I don't see a problem with a troop's CC coming in and doing a compass course, so long as it was done in the same spirit of the troop bringing in any kind of 'outside expert'. You're not there to run the meeting, you're just there to do a specific program. But I think ideally, as this is a very 'scouty' thing, its a program I would have prefered the older boys be the ones who planned and run (prehaps prepared before hand with the assistance of said expert).

 

 

[BrotherhoodWWW]

Thanks for the replies. Maybe I'm misreading what ya'll said but you all could be making unwarrented assumptions. I did not say this Troop is anywhere close to being run the way the Program says it should. There is surely plenty of room for more training in my future but do not assume that I am un-trained. That said I do find the input valuable to not only myself but to others facing the same types of issues.

 

Unknown to me earlier today when I posted this topic the SPL did try to contact me. He left a message on my phone but I do not always check messages every day. LOML told me just tonight. It seems his dad had made plans for a family outing for that evening. See I know that it is the SM's job to deal with the youth. That is why I was thinking that it is also the SM's job to either talk with the lad about his responsibilities as the SPL. Neither have been in their respective leadership positions for more than a couple of months.

 

The prior SM did not follow the boy run part of the program, from what I have gathered. The SM is new to being a SM but I know from experience that he has great potential. Being active in the Troop for only as long as I have been is far to short to make wholesale changes to get the Troop operating they way things should, yet I am determined to do everything in my power to steer it that direction.

 

Beavah, you asked a great question. Personally I am not sure exactly what leadership role I want at the Troop level. My highest interest is in the OA, so to do that I must be registered in some position. I really do want to help the troop in whatever way will benefit the Troop short of being the SM. As I've suggested in other posts I've made the real world many times vastly differs from the "BSA Model" In this Troop the SM with concurance of the other registered leaders in attendence appointed me to be CC. That is fine with me if that is where they need me, at least for the present time. I also believe that the SM is the top leader in the Troop and if he asks for my help then to help is the HELPFUL thing to do. In some ways it is also the Loyal thing to do.

 

You see I am not the kind to rush in and step on toes even when I know that there is a better way, or in this case, a more Scouting way. I did research before letting my son cross over into this Troop and frankly here in the Wild, wild west or at least in our county there is not a bunch of choices. I'm hoping that as CC that I can ensure that the SM and ASMs get training and that the Troop has the resources it needs to support the program. At this point I am far more interested in observing and assessing the exact state of things in our Troop. Just as with auto mechanics replacing parts without knowing the actual problem is the long and expensive way to do things. I see a long and toilsome task ahead, but this is not my first ordeal. Plus I'm sure it is going to take far more effort and determination than I alone can muster to bring things around to the BSA Model of a Troop. I have seen it work.

 

Well that's enough info for this post.

 

 

[Stosh]

My suggestions and $1.00 will get you a cup of coffee in most small town cafes, but here's my take.

 

You seem to have the background and training, along with the position and awareness to make some fundamental changes in your troop.

 

1) SM and ASM responsibilities do not get reassigned when there's an absence, nor does the SPL and ASPL. This is a problem of communication for both adult and leadership positions. Further training in this area is a must.

 

2) Responsibilities are not well defined. Committees should not be planning program, etc. as has been mentioned. Again, more training, defining, and everyone doing their own job would be an improvement.

 

3) You are in a quandry as to whether you wish to be a CC or an ASM. That is good! Keep the middle road because it gives you the appropriate insight to effect the needed changes. You see the whole picture from your current perspective, retain it and work on improving the dydnamics of the troop, i.e. boy-led, patrol focus, support from the PLC and adults for the patrol's program, etc. Use the committee to promote and provide support for boy-led and use your personal contacts with the boys to promote and provide guidance for the boys to do their respective jobs.

[Beavah]

Good, thoughtful approach, Brotherhood.

 

Unlike jblake, I do think you need to choose clearly which you are looking to be - CC or ASM. Too much chance for confusion when you try to do both, and yeh won't be successful buildin' a real BSA program if you wear two hats that the BSA thinks are incompatible.

 

Being honest about your own talents and interests is also a part of being Helpful and Loyal. It's OK to say "no" to CC and "yes" to ASM if you feel you'd be more enthusiastic/giving in that role.

 

As CC, your job is to now build a real committee. Identify parents (and others) who aren't going to be regular outdoors folks but who have a desire to give. Start fillin' in jobs - adult QM, transportation manager, treasurer, funraising chair, advancement chair, etc. Get them job descriptions, get them trained, get them workin'. Go have a sit-down with your COR and your IH and get the lay of the land... and if you don't have a COR, get the DE to come with you to do his "annual" visit and help educate the IH to appoint a COR (it might be you, eh, if you're a member of the CO, which would tie in nicely to your district work).

 

As you start relievin' da SM and ASMs of administrivia, encourage 'em to go (together!) to training. Find money to pay for it. Get a handle on the agenda and let da SM know when the committee will expect a calendar to approve (and in the process quietly drop da monthly adults-plan-da-program silliness). Have a monthly coffee time with the SM, develop a good workin' relationship with well-defined roles (hint: yours is to stay away from the boys).

 

You get the picture, eh? Your job is to provide a workin' committee to support the SM's leadership team. Meetings should have the adult QM report on gear, and you askin' "OK, so how should we expand our gear for the future? New tents? Backpack stoves?". You're openin' up time and opportunity for the SM so he can do his best.

 

Your committee should be an example and inspiration to da SM's... get committee training, have your AC go to the DAC for a personal, sit-down trainin', get 'em all to do supplemental BOR training, etc. Go do WB21 yourself, and encourage the SM's to follow suit. Can't expect your SM's to be into trainin' and enthusiasm if your committee isn't, eh?

 

But yeh must not dictate program changes at the youth level. All yeh can do is provide support and a hint or idea here and there. Program is the SM's bailiwick, and the boys'.

 

CC's a worthy job, and a big one. Make sure it's for you, though, yah? Yeh gotta like that behind-the-scenes support and resource creation bit, and excel at workin' with adults in an adult-style management environment. Yeh gotta work well with your SM as a partner, coverin' different areas of da program. But if it's what you like and are good at, it's a great gift to the troop to serve as CC.

 

Beavah

 

 

[eagle90]

Let's not get too hung up on job descriptions and heirarchy here. If something needs to get done at a troop meeting and the CC is willing and able to help - DO IT. We are here to offer the best program for our scouts, not to sit back and say "It's not my job. I'm a Committee Member, not an ASM".

We have to realize that every situation we run in to is not an ideal situation as covered in the training material. A little common sense is needed.

[Stosh]

Multiple levels of administration can be sucessfully handled by one person if they are aware of how each works.

 

Our CC is in attendance at most meeting and outings and functions very well as "ASM" and does a nice job as CC when he's with the adult committee.

 

Our UC is also at most of the meetings and outings and functions very well as "ASM" and doesn't interfere or pull rank. He's WB trained and former CC.

 

Our DC is at many of the meetings and will be a chaperone/"ASM" on our summer camp outing this year. He's also the CM of our feeder pack and parent of one of our boys.

 

I'm an ASM in one unit and an Venturing Advisor in another.

 

I think the SM is the only one with one responsibility in our "group".

 

I think it's a waste of scouting talent to be:

 

Cub Basics trained

Webelos Outdoor trained

SM Fund trained

VAdvisor trained

WB trained

 

and then assigned only one responsibility.

 

Of course I wouldn't recommend such things unless the individual was trained in each area and was able to quickly shift gears on the fly as necessary. If the individual has all this multiple training and "lords" it over others, pulls rank, and is basically a nuisance, then it would be better for them to simply stay home.

 

Stosh

[Venividi]

I understand that there may be times when jumping in and doing someone elses job is necessary, but I side with Beavah on picking a role within a unit and performing that role well.

Just like scouts back away whenever an adult steps in, and allow the adult to perform their role, so will parents. If you want to run the committee, work with the boys, plan their program, make campout reservations, line up drivers, chase down families for monies in arrears, inventory and repair equipment, etc., parents will let you. In the short term, that may work, and scouts get to go on a campout that wouldn't have happened because some adults didnt pitch in. In the longer term, I believe that this is extremely detrimental. Parents aren't invested in the program. Kids get shortchanged, because if you are an ASM, time that could otherwise be spent mentoring a scout is now spent working on things that should be done by the committee. And when you burn out, there will not likely be anyone willing and able to step in and replace the "SuperScouter". (Please note that I used "when" and not "if". I have no doubt of your enthusiasm and ability. Do not underestimate the burnout factor when you are in a position where you are doing almost everything.)

 

And if your desire is to work with multiple units (i.e. OA, along with a troop role), the more different hats you are wearing in the troop lessens the time available that you have for OA.