Bad Parent

[pmarius]

I have a new parent that is constantly cutting down the leadership in our Troop via e-mail to all the parents. She spreads rumors about our lack of safety and discipline. We are working on these issues but she has been very destructive in her approach, because we are not doing it her way. I have adult leaders that are ready to quit because of the open criticism of their best efforts. I am a very diplomatic person I have invited her to the committee meeting, to speak her peace. But her anger with how things are being done is out of control. She has been a major interruption to our troop committee this year. I am considering closing the committee meetings to parents and just have the executive committee meet just to keep her from disrupting. I have adults that are not attending events if her kid is involved. I want to kick her out. But it is her kid in the troop so I can do that? Help. What do you suggest I do? What can I do? I don t think I can I kick her son out because of her? I am at my wits end.

[evmori]

Is she a registered leader in your unit? If so, get your COR involved & request they revoke her membership. You can't let one parent destroy the entire unit.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[Beavah]

Hi pmarius. Welcome to the forums.

 

I think all scouters who have been around a long time have run into some version of the parent you're talking about.

 

Yeh don't mention what your position is in the troop, though. I think this is your problem if you are Scoutmaster, Unit Commissioner, Committee Chair, or Chartered Org. Rep., or perhaps if you are an "elder statesman" on the Troop Committee. Otherwise, I think yeh have to leave it to those folks, and just express your support for their actions in hard cases like this one.

 

If yeh are one of those "key people", here's the way I think about it.

 

Occasionally, the person just needs a job. Give 'em something that they're responsible for, so they get out of the way of other people, they feel useful, and they begin to appreciate how hard it is. I find this works only about 20% of the time.

 

After that, I think the job is to protect the program for all da boys and their parents. A parent who is disruptive and causes your "regular" volunteers to lose heart hurts all the boys in your program.

 

What do you do with an adult who is hurting the boys in your program, directly or indirectly?

 

The answer should be obvious. You ask 'em to leave.

 

Now, I'm all for gettin' two senior adults to sit with them privately and explain why their behavior is unacceptable and give 'em one chance to do better. But push comes to shove, you have to protect the program for all the boys.

 

Even if that means you exclude a parent from outings and meetings. Even if that means you lose a boy when the parent quits.

 

 

Beavah

 

[Lisabob]

I think Beavah gave you some good advice there, but it also depends a little on the substance of this woman's concerns. If she is concerned about basic safety issues as your post suggests, then it does not surprise me that she's not willing to work this out quietly, behind the scenes. Chances are that in her view, such an approach would be equivalent to nothing getting done about a potentially serious problem.

 

She may also feel that the only way to get her point across to people is to be blunt/edgy/vocal (whatever adjective you prefer). Sometimes, when a group of people have been working together for a while and a new person comes in, it is hard for the group to accept or appreciate the new person's perspective and anything that new person says gets discounted. In such cases, the new person is either going to throw their hands up and say "forget it," or they're going to get more agitated and push harder - depending on their personality and how much they care.

 

No doubt that the method this person has chosen is backfiring, based on your comments. But is it just that she's obnoxious (yep, we've all had a few of those folks around!)? Or does she have a point that is not being adequately addressed by the existing leadership?

 

 

[local1400]

Welcome pmarius, sorry it has to be under this circumstance. I hope you can update and fill us in more. Does this lady know that the BSA is a set program with rules and regulations? Does she know Scouting is not your way, her way, but the Patrol Way? If she doesn't know Lord B-P, she needs to go to his church and read his good book.

[GernBlansten]

If you have a health and safety problem, can't think of a better person to assign the task of resolving it. If you don't have a health and safety problem, I can't think of a better person to assign the task of resolving it. If they continue to complain after assigning them the responsibility to solve the problem, then kindly ask them to resign their responsiblity to someone more qualified and stop their complaining or leave. I really should be on TV like Dr. Phil shouldn't I? ;-{)

[SemperParatus]

You have a headcase on your hands. Things will only get worse. Giving her a job is not the answer - the only thing worse than a headcase is a headcase with some degree of authority. The CC and COR should invite her to a meeting and tell her she is no longer welcome at any Troop/committee meeting. Revoke her membership and e-mail privileges. If she decides her son can no longer participate because of the consequences of her actions, then so be it. She will likely move onto another troop and the pattern will be repeated.

 

We had a similar problem a few months ago. It is amazing how some people thrive on generating controversy and trouble.

[scoutldr]

"Revoke her e-mail privileges?"

 

I wasn't aware that e-mail was a privilege granted by the Troop Committee. You could threaten to sue her for libel, however.

[Lisabob]

Guys I think we're being a little harsh without knowing the back story.

 

Maybe this woman is just a royal pain in the neck. They certainly exist. In this case, it might be good to think about helping her move on.

 

Maybe she just doesn't understand how the troop operates, and why something she fears is unsafe is actually not a problem. (example: maybe she fears that "boy led" means adults aren't paying any attention) In this case she needs some education about troop practices, along with possibly an invitation to attend the next district training session (not saying she should necessarily be an ASM, but if she's worried about outdoor safety and isn't very skilled, it might help her to do the training and learn so she can better judge what is, and is not, safe.) In this case, she could conceivably become your best ally down the road a bit.

 

Maybe? This woman is rocking the boat for a really good reason. pmarius does say she is concerned about "lack of safety and discipline." Not withstanding that she is clearly not being very effective in how she raises these concerns, it is still possible that she has a very valid point. In this case, the existing leadership might need to get over themselves and pay attention to what she's upset about.

 

Without knowing at least some background with regard to what sorts of behaviors she is upset about, it is hard to give good advice on how to handle the situation.

 

Think of that one troop that posted here a while ago about how they go sod surfing. Yeah, if my kid were to join that troop and for some reason he stayed with that troop, I'd be raising a mighty big fuss about the sod surfing issue. They probably would view me as a difficult outsider. Maybe we're talking about other safety issues - older scouts driving younger scouts to camp outs in the back of a pick up truck? lack of YPT protections? failure to follow safety procedures with how they operate an axe yard? Who knows what?

 

 

[ScoutNut]

Yep, I agree with the others, more info is needed in order to give sound advise. Otherwise we are just shooting blindly.

 

"She spreads rumors about our lack of safety and discipline. We are working on these issues"

 

What are the issues? How is your Troop lacking in safety & discipline?

 

 

"her anger with how things are being done is out of control."

 

How ARE things being done? What are you doing to correct your Troop's lack of safety & discipline?

 

 

"she has been very destructive in her approach, because we are not doing it her way."

 

What is her way? How does it differ from your way? Could her way possibly work better than your way?

 

 

Inquiring minds would like a clearer picture.

 

[FScouter]

As with all judgments, we judge based on the information at hand. If and when more facts are learned, opinions and advice may change. One may choose to withhold judgment and thats fine. Its a little presumptuous though to expect others to withhold their opinions too.

[John-in-KC]

I agree with Beavah and Lisa on the process.

 

I especially agree with Lisa that we don't know the backstory, including:

 

- Is disruptive parent a Scouter?

- Is disruptive parent trained?

- Does disruptive parent have a health and safety background of any sort?

- Why disruptive parent chooses "reply all" emails to spead the ill cheer?

- Is program execution in this unit up to par?

 

ScoutNut's points are also well taken.

 

As Beavah said, if the poster is not the SM, CC, COR or UC, then the right person to approach is the Committee Chairman.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[Oak Tree]

Pmarius - if you are worried about whether or not you have the authority to "kick her out", you do. You can remove her and leave her son in. The committee has great latitude in setting rules.

 

I've been there as well, and if this happened again I would go slowly, investigate the situation, talk to her privately, and try other things behind the scenes, but eventually I would get with her and lay down the rules. And that would be - you can't be disruptive. Period. And if you can't attend events without being disruptive, then you can't attend events.

 

Oak Tree

[Scouter&mom]

There is a way to solve email problem.. We just undertook it recently with another group that was having some of the same problems.. very caustic acusatory emails that went to everyone that had any association with the group.

 

Set up a moderated web group and email list. You can do this on Google.. each person is invited to join group and has to accept. all emails come from and go to group email.. there they are posted and forwarded to all with moderators approval.. takes a little more oversight, but will solve the flaming emails that are sent in the heat of "childish" anger that we parents do so well sometimes.

[Aquila calva]

Bad parent? Or maybe just not a team player. Or maybe a bully.

 

She might be so used to doing things BY herself and FOR herself and son that she just doesnt understand some basics of the program called Scouting. As you are discovering, this can be really difficult to deal with.

 

Surround yourself with helpful people. Make sure these folks all have jobs so they are contributing to the wellbeing of the troop. At your committee/leader meetings design the agenda so these helpful folks have a chance to do all the talking. Keep the subjects focused and on track. If you are the CC you control the agenda and you can decide who gets to talk and when they get to talk. The trick is to do this in a nice way.

 

Since her emails are not helpful, set your computer so you will not see her emails. The other leaders and parents will understand. The most constructive work gets done by talking face to face. Second most helpful is talking on the phone. Talk to people you trust and respect, and dont talk about the problems all the time. Talk about the program for the Scouts. Identify the projects you want to work on and deal with them one by one.

 

If you are the CC or the COR you can tell her she is no longer welcome to attend troop functions. If you are the SM, MC or ASM you can ask the CC to take care of this challenging, difficult and unhelpful person.

 

Hang in there.