Age Restrictions on SM

[Beavah]

Lisa'bob brings up an interestin' thought:

 

I wouldn't choose a 22 year old anybody to be an SM - not enough life experience.

 

I'm curious what others think. Do your units have additional age restrictions (even if they're "informal") on the adult leadership positions? Seems to be a trend these days in the U.S., as our aging population increasingly distrusts the young.

 

I've never seen a problem with a young adult SM. That's the norm in Scouting in the rest of the world, eh? Rovers and adult leaders are typically in their 20's and 30's. It's viewed as the "natural progression" of scouting experience, not somethin' you do while your kid is in.

 

There's some real advantages to young adult SM's. They're better role models, in that kids can see themselves in the role of being 23 and out of college, but they can't imagine themselves bein' in the role of parents. Adult Association has a special "older brother/sister" feel. They're more fit and athletic, and can keep up with and lead the kids. They're single and have time to contribute that parents don't. In fact, I've generally noticed that troops with young adult leaders tend to be more active and adventurous. Young adult leaders are much more in tune with environmental ethics and LNT than older folks these days, and if they themselves were scouts, their skills are both stronger and more current than us old codgers. They learn faster 'cause they're not as set in their ways, and they ain't as forgetful .

 

Fact is, at most BSA and private camps, almost all the "responsible adults" are young adults, and they do a fine job.

 

Only areas where they sometimes need help is dealin' with older folks, who can't take bein' told "no" by a young whippersnapper.

 

Dat's my view anyway. What do the rest of you think?

 

Beavah

who still remembers bein' a good young lad

before he became a good ol' beavah

 

 

 

[Lisabob]

Beavah, let me defend my comment here.

 

First off, I ran (non-BSA) summer camps in my early 20s and yes I'm arrogant enough to think I did pretty well with it too. I've also worked with some really wonderful young/mid 20-something middle and high school teachers who are effective, in part, because they can relate so well to "their" kids. So it isn't that I don't trust young-ish adults. But running a summer camp, or working staff at summer camp, or teaching for that matter, is not the same as being responsible week in, week out, year in, year out, for the very lives of a group of scouts. Scoutmasters, I think, have more responsibility on their shoulders and are more likely to bear it alone, than any camp director or camp counselor or teacher.

 

And they're more likely to have to face complicated family and personal issues that various scouts in their charge are trying to cope with. Could they do it? Could there be "exceptions" to the rule? Sure, possibly, but a little life experience goes a long way in helping people know how to address those sorts of life-is-messy issues.

 

And I think there's a lot of difference, in most cases, between a person who is 22 and perhaps fresh from college, and a person who is in their late 20s and early 30s (to take your examples).

 

And by the way, while I think I did a pretty good job and loved (almost) every minute of my time on camp staff and as camp director, boy, with 15-20 years hindsight, there are DEFINITELY things I would do differently if I could go back and have another crack at it.

 

So I guess there are times when a 22 year old could be a darn good SM, but I would expect that to be a fairly rare exception and certainly not the norm. So I'll soften my original statement: I would be extremely hesitant to choose a 22 year old anybody to be an SM - not enough life experience in most cases.

 

[Eagledad]

I think it's kind of like saying that no 13 year old boy can be a good leader or have the qualities of an Eagle. There are some exceptional young men out there that are better than the adults that are trying to develop them. I had one 17 year old SPL that ran for the position again because he wanted to make some changes to improve the troop. He was so good that I had to give him some of my SM duties to challeng him. He is now 22 and would make a fantastic SM. I hope he is thinking about it. On the other side, I had some ASMs in their 30's and 40's that would be terrible scoutmasters. I don't think one can make a blanket statement about age requirements of any position.

 

Cliff Golden who hovers in this forum from time to time was a SM in his early 20's and has been doing it for I think over 25 years. He has helped me in so many ways to be a better scoutmaster, I can't thank him enough. I will add that I have past his wisdom along in this forum many times.

 

You just have to give folks a chance to learn whether they are worthy or not. For some, it is the same leap taken for women SMs.

 

Barry

[MarkS]

My troop chose a new SM this year. Our committee prepared a score sheet (just like any other trade study) to rate the SM candidates. The score sheet identified qualities to rate for each candidate and provided a weighting muliplier for each quality (so we could decide if one quality was more important than another). The committee assigned a score for each quality and used a spreadsheet to factor in our weighting and tallied the results for us.

 

We used the following qualities...

 

Commitment to the ideals of scouting

High moral standards

Ability to relate to boys

Ability to relate to and interact with adults

Ability to keep a "cool head" under pressure

Good organization skills

Flexibility and the ability to compromise

Good planning ability

High energy level

Attention to detail

Comfortable in the outdoors

Training and experience

 

Age was not directly considered. Only experience. A younger candidate can actually have more experience in scouting than an older one.

 

The scores are used to compare the candidates with the highest scorer being the first to be offered the position. If he/she accepts, the search is over and the other candidates are not contacted. Otherwise, the person with the next highest score is contacted.

 

It was a lot of work for two candidates but worth it.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Oak Tree]

We've got no age restrictions. But the only candidates we've ever had have all been middle-aged.

 

I agree with your points, Beavah. I'm sure there are a number of troops that do great with a younger SM.

 

In our troop I'd have two potential concerns with a younger SM. One would be his ability to delegate/coordinate/organize a larger group. Not that age is an absolute predictor of that, but given the size of our group it can really help to have experience managing a big group of people, keeping a lot of balls in the air at once, delegating work well, and communicating frequently.

 

The second point deals with the drawback that you mentioned. If they just had to deal with the boys it would be easier. But we have a lot of adults around, and parents have a bunch of opinions, as do some of our ASMs. Being able to deal with concerned and/or unhappy parents requires the right touch, with a balance of confidence, flexibility, and understanding. I can picture a young ASM doing a great job leading a smaller troop where he can deal mostly with the boys. I can see other issues in our situation.

 

And as always with generalizations, they don't apply to everyone. You'd have to take each case individually.

 

Oak Tree

[eagle90]

I took over our troop when I was 22, right out of college. No one else wanted the job, the troop was in danger of folding. I am an Eage Scout who, as a junior and senior in high school, basically served as SM, as the SM at the time was an older meek and mild gentleman, dedicated, but just not an outgoing leadership type. While I didn't have the life experience, I definitley had the Scouting experience, and surounded myself with those who did have the life and parental experience. It must have worked. 35 years later, I still do the same thing. I think too many folks want the SM to be a Dr. Phil type, solving the psychological problems of every member. Just present the program and HAVE FUN!

 

Dale

 

 

 

[Eagle69]

I became SM at the age of 27 and was recruited for the job by older adults, who also recruited two ASM's in the same age group. However I would not have accepted the job without the assurances of several older adults, who were parents, that they would be there to help. I am still SM after 28 years and am not a parent, but I have always made sure I have had a parent, usually older but not always, as part of the Troop Leadership. You can't just put an age down and use that as your qualifier to even be considered. Every person is different. I've had kids that at age 13 were as mature as some 18 year olds and 18 year olds that still acted like 15. Use age as just another item on your checklist when selecting a leader.

[scottteng]

The scoutmasters hardest job is dealing with the adults if the young man has the people skills to deal with upset parents etc. go for it. The SPL runs the troop if we do it right. Most scoutmasters tend to be older because it is easier for us geezers to tell an immature 30 something parent to take a chill pill and leave well enough alone.

[John-in-KC]

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, but generalities help a bit.

 

Not every 20-something is ready to be a Scoutmaster. Some (more likely, a few) are, and they'll be very, very good. Others won't.

 

From the young adults who were in my Wood Badge class, my patrol mates and I:

- Deduced they had yet to have that true "Oh, XXXX!!!" moment, when job, family, and friendships all blow up at once.

- Deduced they had not yet learned the difference between being a MEMBER of the program, and being an adult facilitating and mentoring youth.

- Discovered, at the end of the cycle, that they were the ones who didn't complete their tickets.

 

We're all different. I know I never want to be a front-line Scoutmaster. I don't have the long-term patience, especially with the youngster who just is not getting it. Heck, I have enough problems trying to see my own Eagle as others do, instead of seeing all the warts.

[epalmer84]

In September of 1979, I became a Scoutmaster; I remember this well since it was my 21st birthday. I had been the "acting" Scoutmaster Since February or so when the previous Scoutmaster had actually left.

 

Was I a good Scoutmaster ? I would like to think so. I delivered the program as I had learned it. We went camping every month, we had a fair advancement program and we had a lot of fun. I don't recall ever having an assistant Scoutmaster with that troop, and I can't recall who took over when I left in December 1980.

 

I know I was a more energetic Scoutmaster than I am now, and probably a bit more enthusiastic. I don't recall ever using a sleeping pad during that time; air mattresses are lovely these days. I never had any training during that time.

 

Now- to put this into perspective- this was in Neu Ulm, Germany, a small military community. I was a young SP4 in the Army and the closest troop was an hour away. I don't ever recall meeting the DE who was two hours away.

 

Ed

[scoutldr]

There's already a Scouting job for the 22 year old new college grad with no life experience. It's called "District Executive"...

[Eamonn]

I became a Scout Leader (SM)back home when I was in my early 20's.

Looking back, I now know that I was very fortunate that I had a lot of support from other Scouter's.

Not all of them were that much older than I was, but they were there for me.

Also in the UK we have the Scout Group which has a Group Scout Leader.

I know now that a lot of what I did then was done for the wrong reasons and I made a lot of mistakes.

But at the time there was no one else.

Ea.

[prairie]

Eamonn touched on something I thought of earlier in the thread though I think of it by another name. All new Scoutmasters and especialy young ones should have mentors avaiable to them, steady people who don't have the energy, chrisma, leadership skills or time to be a SM. One of the things a good Rocking Chair patrol can bring to the troop.

[OldGreyEagle]

Scoutmasters need a mentor? Dont they have one in the Unit Commissioner?

 

Then again, I find it somewhat ironic that the generation that coined the phrase "Don't trust anyone over 30" see "Wild in the Streets" now doesnt trust anyone under 30

[scoutingagain]

While I will admit to my biases against a young twenty something SM for many of the reasons stated, I would not automatically rule a candidate out because of age alone. I will also admit to the similar thoughts about a female SM, but would not rule out a candidate simply based on their gender either.

 

SA