Troop Flags

[result1]

Troop Flags

 

How important are the Troops Flag and the United States Flag in a Troop Meeting?

 

I know at one Time, Both Flags was at every meeting. Last Night they had the CC come to the center of the room, every one (Pledge alliance to the Flag) that was on her uniform.

 

The week before that it was a Cub Scout getting ready to cross over was called to the center of the room.

 

I have my own personal thoughts, and thats why I posting this.

Im sure they still have the Flags, just have not been bringing them to the meetings

 

[SWScouter]

I pledge allegience to a patch that looks like the flag of the United States of America...

 

Personally, I find reciting the pledge to a patch something that should be avoided. I would much rather recite the pledge without it. That's my feelings anyway.

 

SWScouter

[FScouter]

Yeah, a patch is not a flag, its a patch. You may as well salute to an imaginary flag at the front of the room. I've been called upon a number of times at our district committee meetings to serve as the "flag", which I find highly annoying. Last time, I pulled a letter out of my back pocket that had a flag stamp on it and asked the committee chairman to hold that up in front of the group, because I wanted to be able to salute too. He didn't think much of that idea, but now we either have a real flag, or we skip the pledge.

[OldGreyEagle]

As one of the stated Aims of the Boy Scout program is to develop citizenship, why wouldnt you get the "real" flag out?

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Considering unit flags from BSA Supply aren't cheap, I'd be asking "Where are our National and Unit flags? Why aren't we using them? Have you lost them?"

 

Result1, your unit is sounding goofier and goofier; you may want to get your Scout out of this unit. If they cannot keep a flag, let alone a Treasury...

[result1]

Your right I will be stopping by the BSA office on my way home, and see if they can give me a list of other troops in my area. I will check them all out between now and the time my son comes back from summer camp in July.

 

Thank you all for your feedback, at times I just need to know that Im not NUTS

And something is wrong and Im not looking to deep in something that is no big deal.

Just because its a big deal to me dont mean its a big deal to some one else.

 

Thank you all

 

[Eagle69]

It's probably too late, but here is a link to a place on BSA National Website where you can put in your zip code and get a list of all the troops in your area.

 

http://www.thescoutzone.org/locator.html

[emb021]

I have never been at a Pack or Troop meeting that did not have both an American and Unit Flag.

 

Most Sea Scout Ships have a Unit Flag. Not so much Venturing Crews, only because most don't follow a standard meeting. At a recent Council Scout Show, they had all the unit flags arranged in a big circle around the 'central stage' area. I had never seen so many Ship flags together in one place (we had about a half dozen ships in attendence).

 

I have never heard of troop that didn't have a troop flag. Regardless of the cost, its just one of those things that every troop works to get. If the CO can't buy one for the troop, usually they fundraise to get one. Same goes for an American flag.

 

[MarkS]

result1 said, "Last Night they had the CC come to the center of the room, every one (Pledge alliance to the Flag) that was on her uniform."

 

I've been lurking in your threads and am kind of wondering just what kind of role does the CC fulfill at troop meetings? Apparently, she's already the Treasurer too but I would hope she's letting the youth leaders, Scoutmasters, and Asst. Scoutmasters do their job delivering the program and training the boys during troop meetings (unless called upon to help out). If not, sounds like she feels the need to assume the responsiblities of others or wants to be in control of all aspects of the troop. Depending on which it is, the other adults in the unit either need to get more involved so she doesn't have to do so much or consider if they're comfortable with someone who wants to control so much.

 

One person with too much responsibility or control will eventually have an adverse impact on the survivability of a unit. They leave awfully big shoes to fill when they're done. The program works best when adults share responsibilities and provide the PLC with an appropriate amount of control over the unit.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[emb021]

MarkS's question gets off the topic of this thread, but by and large the CC and Committee Members really have no involvement in the program of the troop. They are there to support the SM and ASMs in delivering the program. Most scouts should be pretty much oblivious to the existance of the TC, except when it comes time to have board of reviews. They would typically see these people as additional adults that might help out with things like COH, fundraisers or service projects and the like, but again, for the boys, more in the background (as opposed to the SM & ASM).

 

As a kid, I had little knowledge of the troop committee or its members. When I was an adult, I was more aware of them, but their work was to support me as an ASM. They helped out, but not to take over from the SM.

 

[MarkS]

Sorry I took it off-topic. To put it back on topic. Troop flags don't have to be expensive. Make your own. Do you know some ladies at your church who can quilt? As far as the US flag is concerned, even a cheap $6 flag you can buy at the hardware store is preferrable to the CC's shoulder patch.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[SSScout]

The boys in our Troop were surprised when I noted that the Troop flag was the same one that the Troop used when I was a Scout in it. That makes the Troop flag at least 45 years old.

 

Now, the American flag we now use is not the one I marched to , as this one has 50 stars on it. And my Scout years flag had 48 to start. (no,no,no, not 13...)

 

Note for your Scouts any history to your flags, meeting places, even flag stands... (my father made two of them. His name was on the bottom...) the boys will get into the history if given a chance.

 

YiS Jim L.

[John-in-KC]

Mark and Jim,

 

I think the meat of this thread is not in whether or not the Flags exist, but in how the current CC and SM are implementing the Scouting program for this Troop.

 

I stand by my earlier comments. This unit needs a visit from its UC in a most serious fashion!

[result1]

Thank you all for the information, and the link to the scout zone, they had a good list but gave no other information as to when and where they meet.

 

Referred you to the Local Council, which is where I went. But the guy was out in the field but after sending him an e-mail, I now have a few troops to check out after the holiday weekend.

 

Its a shame, as this troop does have well-meaning group of people.

 

This unit needs a visit from its UC in a most serious fashion forgive me but what is UC. My guess Unit committee / Unit Commissioner

 

Next week, I also need to ask the CC/Treasurer, what the patch on her shoulder mean District Committee guessing that may be another position that she holds?

 

As far as the Flags, its not that they do not have the flags. The Old SM always had them in his Truck. The Boys would unload his truck and set up the Flags.

 

With the New SM- they had flags for a while but now I do not see them. They should have them tonight for the cross over. But I may be wrong.

 

Granted the flag of the United States is any flag of the United States, or any part thereof, made of any substance, of any size, accurate or not, that is recognized as a flag by the reasonable observer. Some argue that flags are only those items made for display as flags. However the flag code makes clear that the image of the flag sewn into fabric (as on T-shirts) or printed on paper are still considered flags: "... It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.

 

It just dont seem right to salute & pledge to a patch even throw it may be recognized as a flag by the reasonable observer.

 

Thank you all

 

 

[Stosh]

By definition, the Flag is a flag only when it is allowed to be as such. Anything else, any other representation, or even a facsimile are inappropriate. Abuse over the years has basically redefined the flag to mean anything. Remember that the next time your scout tosses his scout shirt with the "flag" on the ground changing into his class B's. We no longer have any definition of flag, thus it becomes less and less meaningful as time passes. At one time the US Postal Service petitioned Congress to allow them to put the flag on postage stamps. After much debate, it was allowed, but reluctantly. As far as I know that's the only time the Flag can be used other than as a flag. Which of course is encouraging what when we cavalierly toss those stamps in the garbage without a thought. Flag courtesy is an oxymoron in today's US culture. If people want to salute a patch -- fine, but it would be a lot easier to just get a flag stamp out of the garbage and tape it to a pencil and hold it up in a "respectful" manner so the boys will learn "true" respect for the "flag".

 

In many cases, I would prefer no Flag ceremony rather than have to be exposed to some of the practices of today's culture when it comes to some sort of "respect" attempts for the Flag.