Assistant Scoutmaster

[donert]

How do you select an assistant Scoutmaster? Does the CO select them or does the SM?

How do you ask an SA to leave the Troop?

[Oak Tree]

It depends on whether you want the official answer, or the practical one. Officially, the CO's job is to provide leaders, and they do have to approve them. According to the Scoutmaster Handbook, "It is the troop committee's responsibility to select and recruit assistant Scoutmasters." In practice, the Scoutmaster normally chooses his assistants. At least, that's the case in our troop, and I suspect in most others. A Scoutmaster's working relationship with his assistants is important, and it seems only natural that he'd have a lot of input, if not the final say.

 

I select ASMs by looking over the potential field, and looking at what jobs need to be done, and then approaching the candidates and asking them.

 

How do you ask an SA to leave the troop? Well, it could certainly be an awkward conversation. I'd first look at whether there was some other assignment I could give to him that would move him into the background. But if that didn't work, I'd get agreement from the CC and COR about what we wanted to do, and possibly from the IH too, if it was controversial enough. Then I'd sit down with the SA, possibly with the CC along, and lay out a brief version of the facts. E.g. - "We've received complaints about the way you interact with the boys. I've personally seen you say/do the following inappropriate things to the boys: xxx, yyy. If your goal is to make a positive difference in these boys' lives, that doesn't appear to be happening, at least for some part of the troop."

 

The best result would be for the SA to realize that he isn't enjoying the job, and some of the rest of the troop isn't enjoying him, and so he would agree to leave. You could possibly do additional things to make this clear to him - "Because of the allegations of poor behavior on your part [and by this, I mean to refer to whatever it is that is causing you to want to get rid of him], we'll need to (conduct an investigation, monitor you more closely, hold you to a set of milestones) [pick one]."

 

If he wants to try to improve, you could decide how long you want to give him. Or, if you've decided up front that he gets no more chances, then it's "Bob, we've decided that there simply isn't a good match any longer between you and the troop. We're asking you to resign from your position." And, depending on his reaction, "It's not an optional situation. It's time for you to move on."

 

I hope the whole thing is never necessary in my troop.

 

Oak Tree

[Stosh]

I sure hope usetobeafox isn't my SM. :^)

 

Anyway, if he's going to be replacing me, this is how he would do it:

 

All of the leadership of our troop is first given a trial period as an adult chaperone, see if they hang around the troop meetings, offer to help with projects, etc. etc. for a number of months prior to being invited to sign up as a leader. This gives us an opportunity to see how the person works with the boys and other adults. Last year, for example, I took the boys to summer camp and I had two "parent chaperones" to "assist me". Since that time, one of their boys has quit scouting and the other is in uniform, working quite nicely with the troop. This summer camp (major trip) has SM, ASM, 2 CM (one from last summer camp) and 2 "adult chaperones" i.e. leaders-in-training. Leadership in the troop is by consensus of all the other adults, including everyone who will be working with them and the Committee.

 

As far as asking someone to leave, we've never had that problem. Maybe it's because of the way we recruit and observe prior to asking that has never given occasion to regret our decisions.

 

Of course if usedtobeafox is my SM and I'm the one being kicked out, then please ignore this post.

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

Yah, jblake describes da best way to go about recruitin' and selection. Get to know people as informal helpers first, over a period of time. Then talk to the other adult leaders and the youth leaders about what they've seen, who they're comfortable with, and invite the strong ones. Includin' youth is important, because they see adults interact with them when other adults aren't watchin'. When yeh invite them, tell them what training you expect them to take right away, and get 'em moving on that. Boys, SM/ASMs, parents, Committee, CO should all be on board. CO of course has the "final call" and ability to act unilaterally if it feels necessary.

 

Hopefully if you do that right, then you never have to deal with the other. It's really tough when a scouter has a boy in the troop to "fire" him. Resign yourself to losing the boy too.

 

Easiest is to find another position for him away from the boys. Don't put him somewhere that won't work, of course, but if you can move him "out of the way" that's easier than moving him out. "George, we've really appreciated your help on campouts, but our big need right now is for you to use that knowledge to take over our Advancement paperwork."

 

If you're really in a "this guy's gotta go" deal (typically because of some really poor behaviors to youth or other adults), then you get the CC, COR, UC, DE, and SM on the same page. Select at least 2 but no more than three of them to meet with the guy privately, at a place you control (either a public place like a restaurant or somewhere else where you can easily "end the meeting" or "call the cops"). Make sure one of the guys who meets with him is comfortable being "the heavy". Make sure everyone is going to be calm and professional. Lay it out just as Oak Tree suggests. Follow up in writing, with copies to the key 5.

 

If the ASM does have a boy in the program, yeh need to set up some pretty strict ground-rules about his participation as a parent. Make sure you put those in writin' too. Probably, the boy will just be pulled out, but if not, yeh need to protect the space for him and the other boys.

 

Think ahead, too, about getting things like keys and troop gear back (or the need to re-key quickly).

 

Finally, be sure you share enough with the DE so that a determination can be made about whether the man should remain registered with the BSA (to potentially serve as a leader in another unit).

 

Yah, good luck with it.

 

Beavah

 

 

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[ASM915]

Oak Tree and jblake,

 

I like your approach, but there is one snag. Your Scouts that age up can only serve as ASM's until they turn 21 (MBC also). Then they can opt for a CM position.

 

So what does the SM do when one of these Scouts wants to stay in the Troop? You can't necesarily make them adult chaperones, ie: leaders in training.

 

How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period?

Just curious how you do it?

 

Eric(This message has been edited by ASM915)

[Eagledad]

>>Finally, be sure you share enough with the DE so that a determination can be made about whether the man should remain registered with the BSA (to potentially serve as a leader in another unit).>How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period?

Just curious how you do it?

[Stosh]

I like your approach, but there is one snag. Your Scouts that age up can only serve as ASM's until they turn 21 (MBC also). Then they can opt for a CM position.

 

So what does the SM do when one of these Scouts wants to stay in the Troop? You can't necesarily make them adult chaperones, ie: leaders in training.

 

>>> When I was responding, I was referring more to parents of Webelos cross-overs coming into the troop when we have no idea how these people work with the youth. In your scenerio of 18 year olds, having come up in the ranks we would have knowledge of the leadership qualities of these boys. As a matter of fact, all our Eagle receipients are carried for 4 years beyond their 18th birthday while they are in school or in the military. The troop pays for their registration so they keep the continuity of membership in BSA. Once they are done with school/military they are free to find their own troops or return back to ours. They are all registered as ASM during this period. They come back for the fun activities and keep their pulse on our troop so to speak. Those that don't stick around or keep in touch are still carried out of respect for their accomplishments with the troop.

 

 

How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period?

Just curious how you do it?

 

 

>>> Usually these young men are away at school or military duties. When they come back for an activity, it is more of a homecoming feeling rather than a serious leadership development opportunity.

 

>>> I did have one boy age out of my crew and because he was over 21 became a CM. The problem doesn't occur as much on the crew level.

 

>>> Boys that do not Eagle but age out are not carried on the books, but if they wish to stay on as an adult leader, they may do so. Here again, however, we would know the background of the boys and would offer adult leadership based on that knowledge.

 

Stosh

[Beavah]

How do you two handle the 18 y/o's that want to stay in your respective troops? Do you just assign them as ASM's? Do you place them under the wing of an experienced ASM for a certain time period?

 

Yah, I'm with EagleDad and jblake, eh?

 

A boy who turns 18 has been with the troop a lot of years. Everybody knows him really well - way better than we know new parents or adult-entry ASMs.

 

I think yeh register 'em as ASMs, and then use them for what they're good at and ready for. Same as any ASM. Yeh wouldn't use a 300 lb. older ASM as high adventure backpack trip co-leader, and yeh wouldn't use a young 18-year-old ASM to deal with a difficult parent. But vice versa might work fine.

 

Beavah

 

[ASM915]

Beav,

Don't count out the 18 year olds and the difficult parent.

I have a couple sauvy 18 y/o's that have had a lot more Conflict Resolution training, some on a international level before graduating high school, more then most of the adult leaders in our Council. One in particular I have no problem letting handle the difficult parent. He has a rare talent for defusing touch situations, and everone walks away laughing. They may be rare, but they are out there. Older leaders usually have more life experiences, but a lot of time are set in their ways, less flexable and don't always handle things well.