NYLT Recruitment

[dScouter15]

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience staffing a council NYLT course. In my council, we are having difficulty recruiting scout participants to attend the course. Each year we seem to receive less, and, as a result, our staff is decreasing in number as well. A few years ago, the course ran three troops simultaneously. For a couple years now, we've been down to two, and it looks like we might be down to one in another year or two, if the trend continues. We one of the largest councils in the nation, so it seems like we should have greater representation.

 

Our recruiting consists of a letter sent to each SM/CC explaining the course. Adult staff also speak at each district's roundtable to address specific questions, etc. However, enrollment continues to decrease.

 

I'd like to think we run a good course - we changed over the the "new" syllabus (by now a couple years old) without much more than a hiccup, so I don't think that's the problem. We consistently recruit excellent adult support staff. We try to schedule the course for a week in the early summer, before summer camp/high adventure season gets into full-swing. I've never heard/evesdropped on a truly negative review of the course - some "neutral" reviews, but mostly good reviews. So, its hard to figure out why troops just aren't sending participants.

 

Any thoughts?

[scottteng]

It would help if they did not restrict the training to scouts at least 13 when beginning class. Most of our junior leaders are therefore not eligible. The older scouts have already done their stints as leaders and do not feel they need further training for something they have already done. They consider themselves old hands at leadership. The cost is also a factor the scouts pay more for NYLT than summer camp but must prepare their own meals and do not earn any merit badges. Last years course in our council was canceled due to lack of participants and I expect this years may be too. The course is also scheduled for the most miserable time of year in this area in the middle of summer (July) when most troops are taking a month off of activities because it is just too hot.

[dScouter15]

Yeah, that age requirement is pretty tricky. In the past, we have tried waiving it for specific scouts who asked to attend, even though they were too young by about a year. In EACH case, the scout had left mid-week due to homesickness. Its tricky...

[Crew21_Adv]

dScouter15,

 

Greetings!

 

One council running two and up to three full NYLT courses simultaneously is an accomplishment.

 

If I may offer my own personal thoughts (and not advicelol).

 

I thoroughly enjoyed the new NYLT course, the curriculum is educational and at the same time a blast. I would hope that every Scout would attend NYLT once during their tenure.

 

Before commenting about the benefits and pros, I would like to mention some of the common distracters and cons against NYLT. Between the changes from the JLTC and the NYLT, there are no longer any commitments that the attendees must complete to earn the NYLT compass patch. The skills are easily learned, but not necessarily placed into practice like they once were after attending JLTC. As for attendance. To me it seems to be like Summer Camp issues each year with most Troops. A BSA Summer Camp could cost between 250-500 Dollars for a quality week, high class food, luxurious tents and recently the most costly transportation and gas. Some families will have to make a choice prior to the Summer months; either their Scout attends an NYLT experience or attends Summer Camp. Primarily, most families cannot afford to send their Scout (much less 2 or 3 Scouts in the family) to both NYLT and Summer Camp. Also, even though a Scout is thrifty, I do not know of any 14 y/o First Class that can shell out 250 Dollars just for enrollment alone. Not including uniform, equipment, and transportation. I don't like it, but I can empathize with many families, and understand why NYLT attendance may begin to decline.

 

Regarding the normal compliment of summer programs. A council only has to sell Wood Badge to one person, the adult leader. But a council has to sell NYLT to three people.

 

Now for the benefits and pros. The adults that would most commonly speak to the individual Scouts (and prime NYLT candidate) and their parents are their Scoutmasters and their SPL's. Even though there may be many NYLT savvy Scouters, Commissioners Staff, Roundtable Commissioners and etc. It is going to be the Scoutmaster which is the almighty "Gate-Keeper". Just beyond the Scoutmasters reach will be the parents, holding the wallet, checkbook, or purse. Sending their son/Scout to the right NYLT experience (or Summer Camp), you would think they were investing in a four year college tuition.

 

Finally, my Crew21'ism. I target the sell of NYLT to the Scoutmaster, Parents and then the Scout. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but usually they listen and consider NYLT.

 

I said to Scouting friends and Troops and Camporees that Ive visited., "Scoutmasters, if you want an "over the top" successful Troop, you attend Wood Badge while your SPL attends NYLT." "Parents, if you want your son to learn to clean his room, do his homework, and set his own goals and accomplish those goals. Send your son to NYLT". "Scouts, if you want to attend a camp that is a rage, a riot and a blast, ask you parent if you may attend NYLT"

 

Bottom line. I would expect the NYLT attendance is directly related to the sell. How can you best sell and summarize NYLT to the Scoutmaster, Parents and Scouts?

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

 

P.S. I've never received "salesman of the year" or similar, but hopefully I'm heard on occasion.

[dan]

 

Between the changes from the JLTC and the NYLT, there are no longer any commitments that the attendees must complete to earn the NYLT compass patch.

This most likely was a tradition started by that district. I have talked to other Districts and some still have the scouts complete tickets after the NYLT course, just like they did with JLTC.

Dscouter15 Your course sounds exactly like the one I am involved in!

[emb021]

"Between the changes from the JLTC and the NYLT, there are no longer any commitments that the attendees must complete to earn the NYLT compass patch."

 

I have copies of JLTC syllabi, and I do not recall anything about participants needing to complete any commitments to earn the JLTC patch. This is most likely something done in your council.

 

(its been a long while since I've staffed JLTC, and I don't recall there ever being such a rule).

 

Now, not saying that the idea of a commitment to earn the patch is good or bad. This is done in the OA's NLS (and Wood Badge). But its not part of JLTC or NYLT.

 

 

 

[dScouter15]

I also do not remember there being a "ticket" component to the JLTC program - I think it might be a good idea, but I don't believe it was in the syllabus. There was a "Leadership Commitment" ceremony in the JLTC, which has been replaced with a more generic Closing Campfire Ceremony in the NYLT course.

 

From what I've gathered, the new curriculum is being received well by participants - even if they can't turn their troops into fully boy-led, it is still easy for the scouts to see how they can apply most of the skills in any type of leadership situation. Of course, there are many elements of the new program that don't seem very well thought-out, but that's an entirely separate discussion.

[scottteng]

I'll build a hypothetical scout: Crossover at 10yrs 6 mos with AOL attends summer camp with troop has fun earns MB's is faithful before and after summer camp with meetings before year is out elected permanent patrol leader of new scout patrol attends summer camp second year as first class tapped out for OA goes thru ordeal. at COH in fall is awarded star and placed in troop POR not just patrol he has just turned twelve the next summer he attends summer camp again third time away from home for a week. Your telling me that this twelve year old will go home from a "the curriculum is educational and at the same time a blast" camping trip due to homesickness? Remember we are talking an in council event at one of our council camps. A Scout with probably 50 camping nights at this point is going to bail. More likely that the course was boring and not worth the time in their mind too much seat time and not enough on hands fun time. This is the norm here in Florida remember they get their permits at 15 and the fumes have them locked up in testosterone mode most of our SPL's are 13 and 14

[dScouter15]

Yeah, the age requirement is really controversial - it comes up for discussion every year in planning our council's course, and there are a lot of strong feelings and good points on all sides. I, myself, have mixed feelings, because I see where scottteng is coming is from... but... over the past several years, the overwhelming majority of homesickness problems have come from those for whom we've waived the age requirement. The quality of the program may be a factor, but we very rarely have trouble with the older scouts - they seem to buy into it much more. Perhaps some of it is over the head of your average twelve year old, but within the grasp of your average 13-14 year old. That may just be the nature of the material, rather than its presentation. This has just been my own perspective on my one council's course - your mileage may vary.

[ASM915]

$250 for NYLT? WOW! What are these scout eating for dinner, Fillet Mignon?

Our Council's NYLT is coming up the second week of June at our second camp, not the primary reservation. The problem we have is that NYLT and Camp Staff Week are the same week. So if we have scouts interested in Camp Staff and NYLT, guess what loses out, NYLT. If Camp Staff are present for Training week, all sessions, and for Teardown Week, they get a nice bonus.

 

That's my problem this year. I have one that is interested in both, but has to chooses. Our Troop is sending one scout to NYLT, the SPL who will be 17. At least he wants to go.

 

This year, I'm trying the idea of informing the Scouts who are thinking of running for SPL and ASPL, that if elected, NYLT will be a requirement for accepting the position, so to think long and hard before throwing their hats into the race. That's how I got this years SPL to go

 

As for cost, $150 for the week, with a $50 rebate off the cost of summercamp by Council. Our Council also requires the Scouts to finish a ticket to get the Compass patch. Our Troop will reimburse the Scout the other $100 once he has completed his project/ticket, since he is giving back to the Troop.

 

$50 off of summercamp and $100 reimbursed after completion of the ticket is how I sell it to the parents. As for the Scouts, it's another week of camping away from your parents and if you complete everything, it doesn't cost you or your family anything.

 

BTW, summercamp runs from $145 for Outpost,(@ 1 mile out across the lake and dam from main camp) to $280 for out of Council troops in main camp.

[Crew21_Adv]

ASM915 and Fellow Scouters,

 

With only so many hours to give. I only spent half the day at JLTC years ago, but I did staff the entire NYLT. I have both sets of curriculum, but since the last time I looked at JLTC course material, I did not realize they did not have commitments in the course and this was a council/district addendum. Surprising to me. I thought that was an actual difference.

 

 

But the real reason for my response. ASM915, Dang!! Ohio can afford an NYLT course on 150? and Summer Camp on 150?

 

Move over, I'm bringing my family to Ohio!!!

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[dan]

Why did I say District? Sorry I meant to say it must be a Council tradition, just so there is no confusion on who is running the NYLT course.

 

The Council I am in charges 200 dollars for the course, 220 if you pay after May 1st. The 200 dollars pays for more than food. There are a handouts and supplies provided for the participants and staff. There is also gear provided for the participants and staff that needs to be replaced sometimes.

We have set the age requirement to 13 by Jan. 1st; boy did this cause quite of bit of discussion! We get quite an earful at the roundtables we present at. We do not allow any exceptions to the age requirements.

I have found that most 16 to 17 year old scouts that come do not want to be at NYLT. But I have also seen some exceptions of 16 year old scouts that I am glad I got to know through NYLT.

To those who think that sending a 12 year old to NYLT is a good idea, this is not summer camp. The scout will be put in a patrol with other scouts, which most likely he has never meet before, possibly he may not know anyone in the entire troop. This is very stressful for most scouts. It takes 2 to 3 days for the patrol to start working together as a team. Also they will spend a lot of time where they will not see an adult, they will be dealing almost directly with the youth staffers. This seems to take most of the participants by surprise.

 

The only thing I would like to see changed in NYLT is to have a time set aside when the Scoutmasters would come out and meet with the scouts they sent to the course so the scouts could share their visions of their troop with their Scoutmasters.

 

I do not think adding a ticket after the course would be a good idea. I do not see what purpose it would serve.

 

At this time we have more of an issue getting staffers. We set a limit of number participants based on the number of staffers we have. We use to run 3 troops with 6 patrols with a 6 per patrol. The last 3 years we ran 2 troops with 6 patrols per troop. This year we will have 2 troops with 5 patrols each, we most likely will run 7 per patrol. The time commitment from a staffer is a huge issue.

 

[ASM915]

Crew21,

Come on over. Being out of Council, and overseas, it's going to cost you Out-of-Council rates. $180/210 ($140/$180 for early bird) was for primitive camping doing your own cooking. Over the years, we've only had three other troops in outpost with us during summercamp. Usually it is all ours, and it's in the woods, SHADED, unlike the rest of camp. A bit of a hike into main camp though.

 

Dan, I'm not sure what the scouts all get for their $150. I like your thought on the SM going out to camp sometime during the week to how their scouts have matured. I might toss that out at the orientation meeting coming up next month.

What replacement gear are you talking about?

[kb6jra]

NYLT, as it's called now, has been done in my area since the 70's It was, and is still called, Buckskin NYLT. They use the new syllabus and there was a graduation commitment from last year. It pretty light as I remember there were 12 or 13 in the old course.

 

This year our council will put on 2 full courses consecutively. One is full and the other is 2/3 full. That means two full staffs as well. I don't know why we have such a great turn out or staff commitment, but it's always been the culture of this council to revere those boys that have been through the program.

 

Maybe it's the two presenations at RT each year. Maybe it's the abundant flyers or the missing info on the website...(speaking about my own council). Maybe you need to sell the Scoutmasters on the idea that their troops will run much better if they get their leaders trained right. I think that's why I insist my boys participate...I'm sending 4 boys this year at least, maybe 6. We've sent 9 before, that was a lot of work. Every boy in my unit 1st class and above, 13 yo or older attends. There's just no question. I solicit 1/2 scholarships for those finishing the course (little work to do afterwards) which gets mom and dad happy and involved.

 

Sell the Scoutmaster, sell the program I say.(This message has been edited by kb6jra)

[scoutingagain]

Our council provides NYLT just prior to summer camp. All incoming camp staff and counselors-in-training, (we call them Lead Scouts), are required to participate in NYLT.

 

The class is limited to 50 participants so after staff and Lead Scouts, it leaves about 20 - 25 openings for at large attendees. Youth that wish to attend the course must apply and there are usually more applicants than available spaces. I'm not sure how scouts are selected but I imagine preference is given to older scouts, with demonstrated commitment to serving in leadership roles in their unit, as opposed to those who are looking for something to put on a resume. The instructor is insistent about the age requirement. He will not take scouts under 13. His explanation is the course is demanding both physically and mentally and it's been his experience that the few times he's made an exception that younger scouts don't cut it, not in this course.

 

I admit I'm not familiar with the curricullum. But my son took the course from this instructor two years ago. In addition to classroom instruction, the course included a night hike/backpacking overnight. Early morning wakeup calls, various physical team building excercises. For at least one day the entire class had to carry around a 100' line used to tie up ships, about 6 inches in diameter. At the end of the week, one of the exercises was to have groups use this line and tie a Turks Head Knot.

 

My son came back a changed scout. It was after this course he dropped a school activity and decided to run for SPL. He came back proud to be a scout, wanting to lead. The NYLT patch he wears is the most important patch on his uniform to him.

 

I might add he ends up quoting chapter and verse to me on the program. It's not uncommon if there is a program question, I'll go to him for advice (if I havn't run into it here. )

 

Cost is a factor, the week runs about $250, but many of the troops pay for or subsidize the training for their youth leadership. The cost is included in the Lead Scout Program, $330 for NYLT, Camp Staff week, plus 3 additional weeks for the priviledge of working at camp with the hope of getting to serve in a paid staff position the following year.

 

So far the $330 I shelled out for my son to participate in NYLT and the Lead Scout Program has been the best investment I've made in scouting.

 

 

SA