Is there a restriction on the length of a pocket knife?

[MarkS]

I was at a camporee this past weekend where a young staffer noticed my pocket knife and wanted to cut a corner off my Totin' Chip because the blade was too long. He claimed that the rules say it should be no longer than the width of your palm. The blade of my pocket knife is about a half inch longer (including spine and cutting edge).

 

I thought I might have forgotten the rule from my training so I checked. The Totin' Chip says to follow the rules outlined in the "Second Class Scout" chapter of the Boy Scout Handbook. Neither the card nor the chapter list any blade length restrictions. I also checked GSS and none there either.

 

Just wondering if the young staffer was trying to enforce a real requirement documented elsewhere or perhpas a derived requirement from the training he received from his camp staff or unit training? If it's documented elsewhere, let me know. I'm having trouble locating it.

 

Wasn't documented in the camporee manual either. Manual just says no sheath knives permitted.

 

Thanks.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[Eagle69]

I think this has been debated before along with whether or not sheath knives are allowed. The answer, if my memory is correct, is that there are no "official BSA" restrictions. Troops, camps, etc. can create rules and some of these have over time become to be treated as the "official" rules.

[Trevorum]

The width of whose palm? The 10 year old and small-for-his-age Webelos, or the 6'6", 280 lb linebacker Eagle Scout?

 

Just another scouting myth. (Maybe the "young staffer" is trying for a promotion to the uniform police ...)

[Stosh]

The length of blade most often is determined by state and local laws, not BSA policy. Generally speaking a pocket knife can have a blade of 2.5" or shorter in length to be legally carried concealed in the pocket. Sheath knives are legal as long as they are carried in the open. If one is wearing their Jac coat and it conceals the knife, it is not legal. If one is driving in the car, it would be wise to remove the knife and display it on the dashboard in plain view while driving. The BSA Knife Police might be more demanding than the real police, but the real guys can carry more weight behind their words.

 

Forgot to add: When one is in a national park/forest/reserve and are pulled over for an infraction, it is a federal offense. State parks - state offense, etc. Be careful.

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Trevorum]

I think laws on knives vary tremendously between local jurisdictions. Here in Texas, the maximum legal blade for a folding knife is 5.5"

[kenk]

jblake47 gave the right answer, but then started straying into Wisconsin (?) law and personal opinions.

 

Besides the Guide to Safe Scouting, the real answer is to check with your local and state laws, or if on federal property, you'll need to check with those laws.

 

Here is a link that you might find useful:

 

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm

 

(This message has been edited by kenk)

[OldGreyEagle]

Actually I see two issues here. The first of course is the length of the knife question. There is no BSA policy on length of knives, the only statement on knives is in the Guide to Safe Scouting and it says:

 

"A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.

 

Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft."

 

So, BSA policy does not talk about the length of a knife, it talks about knowing how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives.

 

Now that the BSA is out of the way, a scout also has to be cognizant of local and state laws and if Camping on private property (oh, say like a Boy Scout Camp) what the internal, private policies are for the property. If you can't have a knife longer than X, then you cant have a knife longer than X. I guess it is incumbent on the Camp/Council to have its rules accesible so out of towners know the local rules.

 

Next issue is the "cut a corner off my Totin' Chip ", I would love to ask the person where in the BSA does it state that such a practice is acceptable. Can it happen? Certainly, it happens all the time, but I love when people come up with non-existent rules (length of knife)and non-existent "punishments" (cutting a corner off totin' chip)

 

[kenk]

I just hope someone doesn't want to cut a corner off of my Therm-a-rest if I snore too loud!!

[MarkS]

Well, everyone is saying the things I expected to be said. Most of which I already know. What I have is a lockback knife with a single 3.75-inch blade of which the sharpened edge accounts for 3.25-inches. It's a Craftsman that I bought at the local Sears hardware years ago before I was involved as a scouter.

 

I'd like to thank kenk for the link to the web site on state laws. While the length is okay in my state, it's a quarter inch too long for where my troop is going to summer camp. I'm glad I started this thread. Guess I'll leave it at home when we leave for summer camp.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

[FScouter]

"(Maybe the "young staffer" is trying for a promotion to the uniform police ...) "

 

No way. He would not be permitted into our ranks. We who are so often derogatorily referred to as "uniform police" by the uniform scofflaws back up our uniform statements with the Insignia Guide.

 

This young staffer is making up his own rules, or ignorantly repeating someone else's made-up rule. Of course he could be an attorney or judge or someone with intimate knowledge of local law, but it doesn't sound like it.

[Crew21_Adv]

MarkS,

 

Greetings!

 

Excellent comments already.

 

I would appreciate the effort of the youth staffer; it he was not attempting to be rude, but merely attempting to be safe.

 

Unless this young staffer was behaving as the local camp police, and pointing out violations (of his own interpretation). Not everyone can memorize the entire Guide to Safe Scouting, as well as their own Troop manuals, and the local camp policies word for word. It may be easy to confuse a troop policy for a local camp policy.

 

Also, rarely, in BALOO or Introduction to Outdoor Leadership Skills, we go beyond BSA policy and begin to provide our own advice. While advice on knifes, fire lays, stoves and fuels, and first aid is good and usually welcomed. But, It should be stated as personal advice and all of the attendees should be demonstrated where the actual source is and what the actual literature states.

 

Hopefully, someone may re-educate this young staffer on the actual rules and literature. And ideally, hell be quiet when it comes to quoting his own rules, but he will be vocal to speak up about safety, when warranted.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[MarkS]

Thanks for the note Crew... The young staffer was perfectly polite and simply seemed to be enforcing what he believed to be correct policy. He was very convincing in explaining the policy and had me thinking I had forgotten a key detail in my training. That's for sure.

 

However, we were on an orienteering course when he asked for my Totin' Chip that was in my daypack which I decided to leave at our troop campsite because it was raining cats and dogs (large ones). I offered to escort him to our campsite to retrieve the card but he declined and let me off with a warning because I was an adult so nothing came of it.

[epalmer84]

As best I can figure, Virginia state law is that you can carry a folding knife under three inches in a school.

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1'>http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1

 

Othere than that, the Code of Virginia is quiet on a standard knife:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308

 

Of course, there may be local laws that also apply. The county courthouse has a sign that says no knives are allowed.

 

Ed

[Stosh]

As I stated in my original post, "The length of blade most often is determined by state and local laws, not BSA policy. Generally speaking a pocket knife can have a blade of 2.5" or shorter in length to be legally carried concealed in the pocket." If memory serves me correctly this was federal guidelines for all air travel before 9/11. Now, with the introduction of such folding knives such as buck knives and Leatherman tools with knife blades that exceed the 2.5" length, they come with a belt sheath and are not considered POCKET KNIVES and thus should be carried, exposed to view in the sheath, rather than hidden in the pocket.

 

As a Civil War reenactor who has a tendency to carry Bowie knives with lengths greater than 2.5", one has to be sure they are not on national battlefields, national parks, and other federally controled places. This also includes handguns, rifles, and swords. I was not referring to Wisconsin law, I was referring to conversations I have had with federal employees whom I have talked with over the years that have explained such policy to me in length.

 

I have gone into courthouses and left my scout knife at the desk and picked it up when I returned to leave. Not a problem, but I did notice that they opened it up and measured the blade before they set it aside for my return.

 

No, I was not speaking in terms of personal opinion, I was speaking in terms of personal experience having talked with official law enforcement personnel at the specific locations.

 

While one may get off with a slap on the wrist for wearing a sheath knife in a Boy Scout camp where they are forbidden, you probably will draw a far more severe reaction from a National Park Service warden. I'm sure the warden will be a lot more severe than taking off a corner of your toten chit. Every location can have it's own ordinances, don't assume anything.

 

Stosh

[Eagle76]

Hold the phone! MarkS said:

 

"However, we were on an orienteering course when he asked for my Totin' Chip that was in my daypack which I decided to leave at our troop campsite because it was raining cats and dogs (large ones). I offered to escort him to our campsite to retrieve the card but he declined and let me off with a warning because I was an adult so nothing came of it."

 

Do adults need to earn and carry a Totin' Chip? I thought that, like all other awards and badges, this was for the youth.