Daughter's want to be Boy Scouts hate Girl Scouts

[ScoutNut]

Don't forget that starting in October of 2008 (the GSUSA year is Oct-Sept) GSUSA will begin the total restructuring of it's program.

 

Here's hoping it goes smoother than their last program changes.

 

 

[purpledragon]

Yes, about the GS changes. We have actually began the changes this past October (2007)[They changed the ages/grades for the different levels and added one to the top called "Ambassadors". Now every level will last for two years with the exception being Cadettes, they will last three years.].

 

The next big phase is rumored to hit Fall of 2008. If I understand this one correctly they will phase in the "Discover", "Connect", and "Take Action" parts they are adding to the levels. For an example look at this years cookie pin activities. The format will be the same as in they will divide things into three basic areas. How exactly this will work with their badges and such no one is exactly sure...but I suspect that it will be interesting to see.

[Gunny2862]

Uh, I AGAIN, may not have the full context here, but aren't Varsity patrols part of the Troop and what SM's who are trying to keep the older boys around should be starting? Preferably with additional adults to help the Varsity patrol.

 

And Venturing crews then either coed or not but not necessarily associated with the Troop?

 

Or am I confused still?

[ScoutNut]

A Varsity Team is a separately chartered BSA unit whose focus is sports. They are primarily used in the LDS Church's Boy Scout program.

 

A Venture Patrol is patrol in a Boy Scout Troop that is for the older scouts and usually consists of more adventurous activities.

 

A Venturing Crew and Sea Scout Ship are separately chartered BSA units that are coed and include ages 14-21 as youth members.

 

 

[purpledragon]

Hi Gunny2862,

 

They split the topic talking about crews and such. Check it out:

 

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=180952

 

There may be more information there as well. I hope this helps!

[Gunny2862]

Thanks, PD!

 

Scoutnut, I really am confused 'cause everytime I ask I get a different set of answers about Varsity and/or Venturing.

 

I'll go look at the split forum and see what's going on there.

[Gunny2862]

Not necessarily ON topic but I think still affiliated, If I need to spin this please tell me, thanks.

 

So,

Venture patrols are not Venturers.

Varsity patrols are no longer patrols that are associated with Troops but used to be analogous to Venture patrols. Varsity Patrols are now more analogous to Venturing Teams/Crews but restricted to fewer activities.

 

Neither Venture or Varsity Patrols are coed but Venturing Crews/Teams may be.

Venture Patrols are the only one of these entities that are associated with a Troop - non-LDS(don't want to get confused with any LDS provisions that further convolute the issue yet.)

Am I close yet?

[ScoutNut]

Sounds pretty close. Just remember Varsity Scouts are members of a TEAM, not a Troop patrol. They are also older boys age 14-18. Here are some BSA Fact Sheets that might help -

 

Varsity Scouting -

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-923.html

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-068/

 

Venturing -

http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-388.html

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Varsity teams are not restricted to sports. In fact, the teams I've seen have all been high adventure, so they really have nothing to do with sports. There's very little difference between what a team can do and what a crew can do.

[emb021]

 

"Venture patrols are not Venturers."

 

Correct. Venturers are the name for the youth members of Venturing Crews, which as we've pointed out are youth 14-21. The members of Venture Patrols are Boy Scouts, because, as we pointed out, Venture patrols are just special patrols within troops.

 

"Varsity patrols are no longer patrols that are associated with Troops but used to be analogous to Venture patrols. "

 

Not quite. National rolled out in 1989 a pair of related programs for older boys in Boy Scout Troops: Varsity Teams (NOT to be confused with Varsity Scout Teams) for boys wanting to do sports, and Venture Crews (NOT to be confused with Venturing Crews, which came later) for boys wanting to do high adventure stuff.

 

Due to the obvious confusion of these Varsity Teams with Varsity Scout Teams, that name was dropped, and Venture Crews could do either sports or high adventure. When the new Venturing program was rolled out in 1998, Venture Crews were renamed Venture Patrols.

 

"Varsity Patrols are now more analogous to Venturing Teams/Crews but restricted to fewer activities."

 

No. Again, there is no such thing as "Varsity Patrols" or Venturing Teams.

 

Varsity Scout Teams are the units that make up Varsity Scouts. Varsity Scouts is a varient on the Boy Scout Program that is aimed at older boys (14-18) with some program tweaks to make it more attactive to that age range. One is changing of the group names (Team instead of Troop, Squad instead of Patrol) and leader names (Coach instead of Scoutmaster, Team Captain instead of Senior Patrol Leader). Because you are dealing with older boys, use of high adventure &/or sports along with the traditional Boy Scout program is encouraged.

 

"Neither Venture or Varsity Patrols are coed but Venturing Crews/Teams may be."

 

There is no such thing as a "Venturing Team" or Varsity Patrols. Its Venturing Crew.

 

Venture Patrols can't be co-ed, they are just a patrol of Boy Scouts. Varsity Scout Teams are no co-ed. Varsity Scouts is a program within the Boy Scout Program Division.

 

"Venture Patrols are the only one of these entities that are associated with a Troop - non-LDS(don't want to get confused with any LDS provisions that further convolute the issue yet.)"

 

Correct.

 

But don't make the assumption that Varsity Scouts are strickly an LDS thing. They ARE heavily used by the LDS due to how the LDS groups their youth programs. 12-13 year old boys are put into a Boy Scout Troop, 14-15 year old boys are put into a Varsity Scout Team, and 16-17 year old boys are put into a Venturing Crew. This is why the LDS charters the largest NUMBER of units of any other charter org.

 

 

In brief:

 

Venture Patrols are special patrols with a Boy Scout Troop for boys 13 and up to do their own high adventure or sports activities separate from the rest of the troop.

 

Varsity Scout Teams are separately chartered units of the Varsity Scout Program. The Varsity Scout program is a modification of the basic Boy Scout program aimed at 14-18 year old boys, with some name changes and inclusion of high adventure/sports to the mix.

 

Venturing Crews are separately chartered units of the Venturing program. Venturing is the co-ed program for 14-21 youth, called Venturers. Each crew has a specialty around which a crew will build their program.

 

[Gunny2862]

ScoutNut, Oak Tree and emb021, thanks for the history and then finishing it off Barney style. (you remember Barney, right?)(Although, frankly, purple dinosaurs freak me out.)

 

I think I have it straight now, Thanks!

[emb021]

Some history that may help understand the programs a little better.

 

Varsity Scouts was established around 1985 as a modified Boy Scout program for boys 14-18. It was established after about 5 years of experimentation. The goals was to come up with a Boy Scout program that would both a) keep older boys involved in scouting and b) attract older boys into scouting who had never been involved before and would probably NOT want to join a troop and have to deal with younger scouts (11-13 year olds).

 

As noted, Varsity Scouts is NOT strickly a sports program. Sports terminology is used because these terms are better understood by the older, previously non-scout, boys. Because the program is for older boys, the use of sports and high adventure with the traditional Boy Scout program is part of the Varsity Scout program.

 

While initially a hit, the numbers of Varsity Scouts has tapered off, and its mainly used by LDS churchs.

 

The Venture program was rolled out in 1989 to replace the Leadership Corps and create an in-troop program to retain older boys in the scout troops. Hence allowing these older boys to form their own groups (first called Varsity Teams and Venture Crews, later renamed just Venture Patrols) to do their own activities separate from the troop, either sports or high adventure.

 

Venturing was created in 1998 after the Explorer program was split in half. The career-oriented Explorer Posts were moved to Learning for Life, and retained the Exploring terms. The rest, high adventure/outdoor, sports, youth ministries, arts & hobbies and the rest, became the new Venturing program. Since Exploring has been co-ed since 1971, Venturing also remained co-ed.

 

Several years ago I setup a website that covers the history of the many older youth programs of the BSA, including the above three. To learn more, go here: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/8826/

[allscouting]

Start your own Girl Scout Troop and run it how you believe it should be run. When the girl are 14 there Venturing. In my town the boys want to be in my Girl Scout Troop. I have no limit on the number of girls. We do piggy-back activities with my Cub Scout Pack, and Boy Scout Troop. The older girls are also Venturers. They love Scouting and so do I.

[pinkflame]

Eagle Scout brother found the Y Indian Guides was the best option for his three girls and himself. Around my neck of the woods, 4H is analogous to the White Children's Club, which I guess is OK if your child is white, but it didn't work for us. Sorry to hear GSUSA is on hard times, but that is also what my brother said, which is why they did Indian Guides. I had a great time as Girl Scout years ago, but it was very leader dependent and not really comparable to what my brother got to do as a Boy Scout even in the 60's.

[pinkflame]

Eagle Scout brother found the Y Indian Guides was the best option for his three girls and himself. Around my neck of the woods, 4H is analogous to the White Children's Club, which I guess is OK if your child is white, but it didn't work for us. Sorry to hear GSUSA is on hard times, but that is also what my brother said, which is why they did Indian Guides. I had a great time as Girl Scout years ago, but it was very leader dependent and not really comparable to what my brother got to do as a Boy Scout even in the 60's.